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 Dungeons and Dragons: Don't Let it Happen to Your Kid

 Author:  Topic:  Posted:
Aug 01, 2001
 Comments:
When I stumbled into Billy's room and saw my boy's limp body swaying from a rope tied to a ceiling hook in this closet, I could hardly see for the tears. My boy, my poor little boy, had snuffed out his own life when there was so much promise ahead. His death left a hole in my heart that can never be filled.

Dungeons and Dragons killed my boy. Don't let it kill yours.

justice

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It wasn't until the paramedics removed his body after officially pronouncing him DOA that I mustered the strength to make a closer examination. I wanted to know what Billy's last moments were like; what he was seeing and thinking when he placed that noose over his little head and stepped off into oblivion.

I looked down.

Before me was a heap of books he'd arranged as a makeshift stool to stand atop and then kick aside, doing the deed and sealing his fate. I ran my hand along their spines, recognizing some but unable to recognize a couple towards the top. I removed them and brought them out of the closet and into the light:

  • Dungeons & Dragons Third Edition Player's Handbook
  • Dungeons and Dragons Third Edition Dungeon Master's Guide
I knew my Billy. I watched what he eat, how much he slept, which friends he played with, and everything else, trying to be the best parent I could and trying to make sure he was safe and happy. But I couldn't make heads or tails of what these books were and why he had them. So I did what any responsible parent would do: after a few days passed and I composed myself, I set out to learn as much as I could about Dungeons and why my Billy had chosen those books to kill himself with.

I visited the library. I spoke to other parents. I telephoned the chaplain at my husband's military base. And I fired up my internet. And I learned the awful truth: my Billy had fallen in with a cult.

Dungeons is a cult, plain and simple. The definition of "cult", which Dungeons fits to the tee, is:

A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
Let's take this one piece by piece:
Religion
Religions are systems of belief that consume one's entire intellectual outlook, a characteristic Dungeons typifies. But whereas mainstream religions are a healthful addition to the plurality of human experiences and diversity of viewpoints that makes this country strong, Dungeons is a scourge of the lowest sort. Dungeons provides its adherents with no positive moral direction whatsoever. Whereas the religious are taught to love their neighbors, Dungeons adherents are encouraged to despise them as detractions from the task at hand: perpetuating the Dungeons movement and its subversive goals.
Extremist and unconventional
Dungeons adherents are renowned for their iconoclastic lifestyles. The very fact alone that they would rather spend their time sitting around a table massaging integers instead of breathing the fresh air of our fair planet is enough to prove my point.
Authoritarian
Authoritarian regimes all share the common fact of strict rules directing their subjects' lives in the minutest detail. When I cracked open those Dungeons tomes, what did I find? Heaps and heaps of rules governing how adherents are supposed to go about even basic tasks like purchasing goods and speaking to non-adherents (when allowed). But instead of teaching Billy some skills he could put to good use in the outside world, Dungeons forced him to trust his fate to the rolling of those cursed dice, as though those dice could help him if he ever found himself drowning off a real-life icy floe or languishing at the bottom of a dark pit where he'd accidentally fallen while practicing unsafe and irresponsible exploration. This is what it means to be false.
Charismatic leader
Like all cults, Dungeons has its charismatic leader, a bald moustached man named Peter D Adkison. Read his biography, as it's the first step all Dungeons adherents must undertake when joining the cult. In fact, one of the easiest ways to spot an adherent to Dungeons is to mention Adkinson's name and watch the listener's eyes for that flash of recognition, as every Dungeons adherent knows his name and his vision well, though they largely fail to comprehend its parallel to Scientology as a sinister money-driven enterprise [editor's note, by jsm]Scientology is not a sinister money-driven enterprise. I would, however, even go as far as to say that only the especially slow-witted adherents cannot recognize Adkinson, but since those adherents also lack the reasoning skills necessary to fall victim in full to the cult movement and could not mentally conceive of committing suicide the way Billy did, they're probably not the ones to be worrying about here.
Once you've recognized Dungeons for the cult it is, it's your job to spot the warning signs before it can suck your children in. Here's a partial list of those warning signs:
  • Does your child spend excessive amounts of time with friends unsupervised indoors? Dungeons adherents are notoriously reclusive, refusing to play stickball in the streets or any of a host of normal healthful activities.
  • Does he question the rules and commands you lay down as a parent? Dungeons, at least superficially, promotes independent decision making, though we all know this "free thinking" would be more aptly described as "thinking consistent with the tenets and dictates of the Dungeons movement and ideology".
  • Are his grades slipping of late? One of the myriad of sinister consequences of adherence to Dungeons is the sheer amount of squandered time spent convening and practicing its cult teachings. Dungeons is highly addictive and, if left unchecked, can push a child's entire life aside to make room for more Dungeons.

At this point, you should be thinking: "How do I talk to my kids about Dungeons?" It isn't merely a question I wish I had known the answer to; it's a question I wish I had known to ask myself. If only I had spoken to Billy before he could have gotten in with the wrong crowd and done this to himself! Children always listen to their parents as long as they know they love them and have their best interests at heart. With a soft voice but stern hand, you can make a difference in your child's life.

Once you have the proper mind set, you should start practicing your answers to some of the retorts your child might try to give in defense of Dungeons.

"But Dungeons has helped me to make lasting friendships!"
Just think back to the lectures you gave your kids about drug dealers. Friends made over Dungeons aren't friends at all. True friendship can only be forged through community-building activities like softball and linestepping. If you ever had to rely on these so-called friends in a time of need, then rest assured they would be no where to be found; alternatively, they could be found, but only playing more Dungeons.
"But Dungeons helps develop my imagination!"
Imagination has its place in a civilized society, but when its citizens become too far removed from reality, social upheaval inevitably follows. Imagination can be a healthy thing, in moderation. Imagination can be put to good creative use, as listeners to wholesome music understand. But like everything else, excessive imagination can lead to severe emotional and physical problems. If your children spend all their time in the realm of fantasy, then they won't know how to interact with their peers and with the bigger world out there when they grow up. At best, Dungeons is directly responsible for the social failures their adherents experience when mixing with jocks and beauty queens. At worst, it can induce psychotic schizophrenic episodes like the ones shown in the 1982 documentary Mazes and Monsters.
But Dungeons gives me a sense of belonging!
This is exactly what draws people to a cult in the first place; they substitute a cult lifestyle for the one they feel disenchanted with. Fortunately, it's also one of the easiest arguments to rebut: just find another way for your child to "belong". Sign him up for the church choir. Get him to join a little-league team. Have him attend 4H meetings. There's a whole world of community groups out there. Expect some resistance, but don't take 'no' for an answer; you're the parent and you make the decisions. Once he's found a new clique, he will forget all about that Dungeons nonsense, and he'll thank you for it someday.

Let me qualify that last statement with a little bit of advice: be prudent when confronting your child about his addiction. Dungeons adherents have even been known to kill their loved ones who stand in the way of their addiction. If you feel like you're getting in over your head, then call in a pastor or other prominent community leader to help -- I know my husband's army chaplain was a big help for me. There is no shame in recognizing your own limitations for what they are, and you don't want to jeopardize what may be your child's only chance for recovery.

I'll never have my Billy back; he's lost to a world of dangers and temptations that have already too claimed many . But Billy shall not have hanged himself in vain. His death's keen shall be a clarion wakeup call. We must all unite against the menace of Dungeons; only then shall we be assured of the continuing safety of our children and loved ones.

Hug your children. Let them know that there are happier things in life than spelunking around a dank cavern with only a dwarf for companionship. Let them know that no matter how they feel about themselves and others, that you care and want to help. Only your love can turn them from despair and self destruction.

I know Billy's looking down from up there and smiling. He would've wanted it this way.


A small error (4.75 / 4) (#2)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 06:15:26 PM PST
E. Gary Gygax is the creator of D&D. Wizards of the Coast bought TSR (which includes the D&D franchise) about a year or two ago. A complete mistake because the new third edition rules absolutely suck. I'll just stick with Rifts from Palladium Books and Heavy Gear from Dream Pod 9. Both great stuff.


Beware AD&D!!! (5.00 / 2) (#6)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 06:40:42 PM PST
Dungeons and Dragons is a game. It holds no more insidious allure than baseball, which by the way is responsible in a similarly indirect manner for even more crazy peoples deaths.

Just today a pro football player died due to heat prostration during practice. I know, lets stop doing everything that might be used in a negative manner! We can sit home and knit (with appropriately dulled needles).

Thanks for the incredible display of psychological ignorance I enjoyed it.




This is common (5.00 / 1) (#9)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 06:49:14 PM PST
Saline junior lineman, 15, dies because of heat stroke

Vikings' Korey Stringer dead from complications from heat stroke

Training dangers soar

I remember at my high school that when one of the players was doing poorly in practice, the coach would not allow him to get any water/Gatorade until he started playing better, outdoor temperature be damned. This sort of stupidity happens all the time and on every sports team.


Common in America possibly (none / 0) (#46)
by dmg on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 08:19:00 AM PST
No European would follow their 'leader' so blindly as this. Re-read what you just wrote: the coach would not allow him to get any water/Gatorade

Now I realise that you Americans take your sports very seriously, but think about what you wrote there. It is not for your 'coach' to allow or disallow things. I thought America was the land of the free. I don't believe you people would take this crap from anyone. Would you ?

time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration.
-- MC Hawking

Citizenship begins at the age of 18 (5.00 / 2) (#52)
by suick on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 10:10:16 AM PST
Children in America aren't allowed the same freedoms as adults in America. Use your head. Would you want to give a bunch of weak minded D&D cultists the freedom to execute their peers with "level 9 sorcery" sub-machine guns? No, because until a minor turns 18 he's incapable of rationally making the decision "who should I kill today?"

Free speech is another right those D&D loving sheep are denied. However, this is mainly because noone really wants to hear about how their "second troll cast the mage master spell +19 and then the game master called in a womyn spryte, who..."--I think you get the idea. These kids have no imagination, and no personality. In fact, there are bills being lobbied in congress right now dealing with this issue--many with highly creative solutions, such as mandatory choke-balls/muzzles for anyone who's ever attended a D&D gathering/P-Diddy concert.

There's also many other "rights" which get denied to minors in America, and trust me when I say that it's for the best. That coach you mentioned was simply exercising his right to teach those teat-suckling whiners a thing or two about character. Hopefully they'll grow up to be proud, strong Americans--real heros willing to point a gun at any sunlight-deprived-30-year-old-D&D-playing virgin.

c'mon, lower.

LOL (5.00 / 1) (#62)
by manifold on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 01:27:44 PM PST
Thanks for that :)




 
I'm an evil cultist! (3.75 / 4) (#3)
by motherfuckin spork on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 06:31:55 PM PST
As a player of many vile, satanic RPG's, including the said insidious Dungeons and Dragons, I am clearly part of the problem.

Please, flog me now, as my foulness has polluted the world about me. My mind has becomd tainted by the presence of false magic and false gods in an unreal world brought on by some books.

Clearly, the problem is not just D&D, but anything that causes one to utilize their imagination or to even image anything with their mind. Burn all books! Bury all games! We cannot have such sin-ridden blasphemeis corrupting the innocent and blank minds of our youth.

And then, as I am a terrible and foul heretic for playing D&D and even writing novels and short stories, I should be burned at the stake by my own parish's pastor, sinec that would only be appropriate for bringing my sinful and temptous self into church.

How will I ever be able to tell my son that I, his very father, played something as terrible as D&D. Or that I have gotten my 11 and 18 year old nephews to play as well. Yea verily, the world is clearly coming to an end.


I am not who you think I am.

You and me both (4.33 / 3) (#23)
by SpaceGhoti on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 08:32:18 PM PST
Not only do I play Dungeons & Dragons games, not only do I run Dungeons & Dragons games, but I also play and run White Wolf games such as Vampire: The Masquerade and Mage: The Ascension.

You realize what this means, of course. It means our conspiracy has been exposed, and we must kill everyone who has read this article. I'll make a challenge for an Advanced Celerity round. You try a Fireball.

Fnord.


A troll's true colors.

OH damn.... (5.00 / 1) (#53)
by opalhawk on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 10:12:34 AM PST
At least now I -know- you are corrupting me ;) .... I think I just botched my reality check though.......

You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.


 
This is worrisome (2.50 / 4) (#4)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 06:32:17 PM PST
I don't think my kids play D&D, but some of their classmates must (it's a big school). I never paid it much attention, but you've made me take a good hard second look. Thanks.


D&D (4.75 / 4) (#22)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 08:26:43 PM PST
Parents, if you're really worried about whether D&D is harmful to your children, get ahold of the book and READ it from the begining. It clearly states that it is a game that does not and should not have any relation to reality.

The debate here has been subject to misinformation on one side (Beatrice has suffered from a great deal of it) and hostilities on the other. All I can say here is that there is rarely only one reason for a suicide (of a young person). There is often many reasons.
My condolences on your lost, Beatrice.

-Tim


D&D (5.00 / 2) (#31)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 01:02:11 AM PST
for anyone interested in seeing the other side of this story in a calm well thought out manner please check out the following web site http://www.theescapist.com/
it is the rpg advocacy page.


 
Worrisome? Oh really now? (none / 0) (#98)
by Anonymous Reader on Sat Aug 4th, 2001 at 12:43:47 AM PST
Of course there are kids playing role playing games in the school. They are the quiet ones who know what's going on in class and who get the best grades. They're also the ones who are getting picked on the most for being "dorks". Yes, please don't let your child associate with these people for they might actually teach him something good.


 
your son killed himself because of you, you bitch (2.25 / 4) (#5)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 06:32:43 PM PST
subject says all.

don't blame it on a game


or would you say that a bunch of people sitting around a table playing bridge all night long fit under "Extremist and unconventional" also?

You're a fucking idiot. Your kid deserved to die. You should die too.


No he didn't (2.60 / 5) (#7)
by Beatrice on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 06:41:16 PM PST
My Billy was a good boy who never harmed anyone in his life. Why should he deserve to die? And why should I deserve to die for sharing my painful story with you?


good thing your Billy is dead... (2.50 / 4) (#8)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 06:44:05 PM PST
or else my Ryan would have to kick his sorry ass. Maybe he should kick your sorry ass for being such a loser.

BTW: you're trying too hard.




Cut her some slack (2.75 / 4) (#12)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 06:58:03 PM PST
Have you ever spoken to anyone who's going through a period of grief? Or are you always this insensitive?


 
For what it's worth (3.40 / 5) (#19)
by seventypercent on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 08:03:57 PM PST
I was going to delete this comment, as well as the top-level one where you call Beatrice a "b*tch", but on second thought I think I'll just leave them there. They serve as an excellent example of how these D&D games turn people into inhuman monsters. Are you normally in the habit of calling grieving mothers names, or threatening to kill their (already dead) sons?

D&D fans, this is your ambassador.

I hope you're all very proud of yourselves.

--
Red-blooded patriots do not use Linux.

I do believe that these anonymous posts (3.66 / 3) (#20)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 08:08:10 PM PST
are by more than one person.

not quite as clear cut as you'd like it to be.

and I agree - someone is clearly trying too hard.




 
live long and let evil prosper (3.50 / 2) (#33)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 01:31:34 AM PST
all it takes for evil to prosper is the inability for people to tell when something is bullshit and something is not.
This inability to rationally (note, not rationalize) truth from fantasy will surely cause the downfall of civilization.



 
ambassador? um... (1.00 / 1) (#114)
by Anonymous Reader on Sun Aug 5th, 2001 at 04:16:19 PM PST
"D&D fans, this is your ambassador"

This is like pointing at the judge of an inquisition court and saying, "christians, this is your ambassador".

You can't just group people like that, much as you'd like to.

Besides, how do you know the person who posted that even plays D&D?


 
Think of it this way (4.50 / 4) (#11)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 06:56:28 PM PST
By playing D&D he only killed himself. If he played Doom and Quake, then he'd kill a lot of other people. So at least he minimized the death toll.


 
dying (5.00 / 3) (#43)
by buridan on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 07:26:39 AM PST
there is no "deserving" in dying. you either die or do not. in this case the kid chose to die, probably driven to it by parents who did not care enough about his life to know that he had a good amount of dungeons and dragon game books and played the game, even cared about what those books mean, or had the mental capacity to interpret their meaning.

but maybe you believe in dogs, or gods, your choice whatever. then the gods took your child either to a better place or to a worse place, you have no choice or understanding of the matter until you sacrifice a chicken and read the entrails, if you lack this ability then a pig or goat will do, but maybe less accurate. once you know where your child is according to your dogs, then you can make plans on meeting them there upon your death. so you will need to take the proper actions, then get a pile of books, family bibles work, and a length of rope.

of course is this whole story didn't seem blatantly made up, i would give a different answer


 
The person you are responding to is an idiot (none / 0) (#122)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Aug 6th, 2001 at 02:06:23 PM PST
Beatrice:

The person who stated that you are responsible is an insensitive idiot. I played Dungeons and Dragons for years, I've travelled extensively overseas and I went to college and got a law degree. I don't think that Dungeons and Dragon had anything at all to do with your son's death. Dungeons and Dragons, like anything else, and have a very adverse effect on a person's life if it becomes an obsession.

As a father, I am very sorry for your loss.

Jim


 
Replying To: your son killed himself because of y (none / 0) (#74)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 10:09:24 PM PST
now that was so totally uncalled for and ignorant!


 
Don't blame a game for the misguidance of children (3.66 / 3) (#13)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 06:59:17 PM PST
As a Fantasy rolegamer of 23 years, and also a professional editor and children's author, I have to shake my head in disbelief at the niaveté displayed by Beatrice. Dungeons & Dragons most assuredly did NOT cause your child to kill himself. Your son certainly had emotional problems completely unrelated to D&D, and you are trying to use the game as a convenient scapegoat or reason to explain your son's tragic suicide. I say this with considerable confidence, as I also have an in-depth knowledge of psychology that puts me at the level of most Ph.Ds in that field (I edit and develop articles for many doctors and psychologists, many of which have been published in peer-reviewed publications).

Dungeons & Dragons is no more a cult than Pokemon or any other hobby or interest that is attractive to young people. Many of the young writers who I have mentored or taught over the years have been into fantasy role-gaming and have no behavioral or emotional problems at all. In fact, it is my experience that such children and young adults are more well-adjusted and emotionally stable than others. To blame a game is a cop-out; any parent who does so is sorely deluded and needs to take a long look at his or her parenting skills and re-evaluate how they communicate with his or her children. Take responsibility for your children and talk to them; don't displace your inadequacies as a parent on an undeserving target


Don't blame others for the game (2.33 / 3) (#17)
by suick on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 07:59:08 PM PST
One common trait among members of a cult is their complete inability to recognize that they're in a cult. It's amazing that with all of your supposed "in-depth knowledge" you don't realize this. However, I'm not surprised, if only because it's obvious what 23 years of brainwashing will do to a human, much less a human who willingly allows the mind-rape.

Also, while you complain that D&D being unfairly blamed for the death, you immediatly turn around and throw the blame on the parents. After what analysis? A brief 1500+ word essay from a distressed parent? Surely in all the papers you've spell-checked you came across something which states the fallacies of drawing conclusions from such incomplete data.

But no, D&D is your sacred cow, and any dirt found must be cleaned off immediately. By closing your mind so readily, you missed a heartfelt and rational expose by an obviously loving parent. It's too bad that you feel the need to flash [non-existant] credentials to make a biased view seem valid.

c'mon, lower.

the sacred cow says (3.33 / 3) (#36)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 01:48:24 AM PST
moo


 
You've got to be kidding (3.66 / 3) (#15)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 07:46:49 PM PST
First, this is just plain stupid. Yeah, I'm sorry your kid killed himself, but how can you possibly blame it on Dungeons and Dragons? It's not a cult, it's quite far from a cult. And it does develop your imagination. Oh, and just out of curiosity, do you by any chance read books? Why do you read them? I do, because I like to escape from my problems. Well, use your head, That's why most people I know play role-playing games, just to escape for 3 or 4 hours. Your kid had more problems than Dungeons and Dragons, people have tried to blame the game before. It's not the game, it's the kid.


 
No wonder, D&D blatantly breaks the Commandmen (3.00 / 4) (#16)
by Adam Rightmann on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 07:58:47 PM PST
I came of age in the 1980's, so classmates of mine were seduced by this game, and I have read a bit about it in various ecclesiatical papers, so I know what I talk of.

This D & D game encourages the belief in other gods, even encouraging the players to have their characters pray to other gods.

Many of the characters are encouraged to kill other people.

There is even a character known as thief, who makes there living by stealing.

Plus, who know what damage this game does to your soul by encouraging you to live a lie, false witness indeed.

Obviously, there is no place for a Good Christian in this game, and any Good Christian would do well to shun those would play this game.

I would say a pray for your Billy, but he's surely condemned to eternal torment in Hell, so I would rather save my prayer for the misguided Jewish souls in purgatory like, presumably, Chandra Levy.


A. Rightmann

Blatant Untruth. (3.60 / 5) (#29)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 09:35:57 PM PST
"There is even a character known as thief, who makes there living by stealing. "

I'd like to inform you, that this statement is not entirely true. A thief, does not make his entire living by thieving, they also involve fencing (Not the combat type), breaking and entering, assassinations, and other sorts of things. They are also very good sneakers, and they are useful in figuring out locks.


 
Living a Lie? (none / 0) (#94)
by LrdSlvrhnd on Fri Aug 3rd, 2001 at 03:37:18 PM PST
So... do you avoid watching television and going to the movies? After all, people watching "Friends" drives up the ratings, which convinces NBC to pay David Schwimmer and Jennifer Aniston more money per episode than I'll probably ever make in 5 years, thus encouraging David and Jennifer to live the lie of pretending to be 20-something NYC dwellers.

It's just a GAME, people. Lighten up.

Kevin


 
Well Adam, here is the scoop... (1.00 / 1) (#115)
by Anonymous Reader on Sun Aug 5th, 2001 at 07:50:16 PM PST
Life is eternal, her boy did not die. There is no death. Death is an illusion. We all are eternal Beings.

All physical life on Earth is illusion. We are all playing roles to grow spiritually, are we not?

My son, played D&D and was a renowned Dungeon master back in the 80's and is now married, has a master degree and works with computers & Education, so
please do not assume that D&D types of things are anti-God.

Life is to be lived, and then lived again and again until you get it right. The role playing perhaps makes it somewhat easier to get it right sooner.



 
My Plans.... (3.66 / 3) (#21)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 08:20:48 PM PST
Well, I have played D&D for almost 4 years now. I even got my younger brother and several friends to start too. Now though, I am going to go kill my mom, brother and all my friends then go hang myself using the "Rope Use" proficiency my 14th level Nazi-Elven Thief/Assasin knows!!!

Stop blaming a harmless game for your lack of parenting that led to your son's suicide.


 
Danger recognized long before (4.66 / 3) (#24)
by moriveth on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 08:33:30 PM PST
Regular readers of Jack Chick's insightful works are already well aware of the horrors of Dungeons and Dragons.

Not to mention witches, Muslims, Catholics, and the strong nuclear force.

Spread the word, friend!


There oughta be a law (3.00 / 2) (#38)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 05:02:32 AM PST
Whenever someone uses Chick tracts as a reliable trustworthy source, a modified Godwin's law should kick in and end the conversation.


 
scuse me??? (none / 0) (#57)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 10:50:14 AM PST
ok, 1st of all, d+d, not evil.

gun toting conservatives who do not allow their children to even witness any form of alternative lifestyle: EVIL.

-thank ya'll (EVIL DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS PLAYING WICCAN)


 
This is Incorrect (3.00 / 1) (#25)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 08:35:38 PM PST
Beatrice, you obviously do not realize what you are reading.

Your son most likely commited suicide because of other influences, not Dungeons and Dragons. The game is not a cult, it is just that: a game. Kids play cops and robbers in the back yard, and that obviously causes them to shoot other kids, so we should remove the United States armed forces because they are killing their kids.

That is very similar to what you are telling everyone. I am a player of the game myself, and my school grades are top-notch, I made the gifted and talented class, get distinguished grades on my writing portfolios, and score highly on tests. I do not know who Peter D Adskin is, and I've been exposed to the game for a long time.

Those rules you read are used to determine imaginary effects in an imaginary place. If your children are unable to decipher reality from fiction, then they are suffering from psychological problems and should most likely seek help immediately.

I've played the game for a long time, and I've never known anyone out of all those gamers to commit suicide. Dungeons and Dragons is not a religion; in fact, I have a good friend who plays and is a pastor at a local Christian church!

I've never entertained thoughts of murdering anyone (including myself), and I don't believe that I am tromping through a dungeon with a dwarf for my companion. I believe it is you who are the child here Beatrice, for being so short-sighted that you are unable to tell fact from fiction.

Any replies or comments may be sent to raistilin_magere@yahoo.com

I'll be more than happy to receive and reply to them.




 
Two Approaches (4.00 / 3) (#26)
by Bluesee on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 08:42:44 PM PST
From the opening paragraph and the last line, I can't be sure if this is a serious piece, so I will approach it both ways.

If it is true that your son killed himself and you never had a clue what was going on in your life, you must have an awful lot of guilt. Resolve to take an active role in your child's life, if you should have another child. I'm sorry for your loss, but it doesn't justify lashing out in anger at whatever he was into, it is obvious you are in serious denial about your role in his death, if that is the case. Plus you base all this anger and retribution on two books that fell out of his closet. Get some preofessional help to allow you to experience the grief that is bottled up inside you and coming out in inappropriate ways.

The more I think about it, the more I am inclined to believe the latter theory, however. That you made all this up and are tittering even as you read this. I'll spare any cruel remarks just in case I am wrong, but it is clear to me that abusers of a good system will destroy it more readily than thoughtful posters can restore it. Too bad.

Can you prove that your son killed himself? If so, tell me, where the hell were you all his life? How could he get this far astray without your knowledge? You may have watched what he did, but you never Communicated with him, else you would have known about all this. Such things don't spring up instantly, they take time to develop. Time and cultivation...

This is why, if you are sincere, you need to get help. Such righteous guilt turned inward will surely kill you. It's your life you need to save now, focus your energies on that, not on destroying a silly game.


 
Misconceptions... (4.50 / 2) (#27)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 08:56:28 PM PST
Beatrice, I extend my sympathies to you for your loss. There is no way that I can understand what you went through and what you are still going through, and in the same way, you do not understand D&D.

D&D is no more a cult that organized sports such as soccer or hockey or basketball; these people can be extremists (look at soccer riots), and they follow a charismatic leader (the coach). This is the definition you present. Many things fall into these categories. Rocky Horror Picture Show has a cult following, but no one accuses it of leading to murder or suicide.

Neither you nor I nor anyone else knows why Billy slipped his head in the noose, and to blame it on D&D is ridiculous. If you blame it on D&D, why not blame it on the music he listened to, or the organized religion he followed, or the food he ate or the water he drank. All of these are just as responsible for his suicide as D&D.

I am truly sorry for your loss, but find another scapegoat for his death. There is enough ignorance surrounding D&D and RPG's in general that it doesn't need a modern day witch-hunt or book burning because you cannot justify in your mind why your son chose to kill himself.


 
Maybe it was coincidence (4.75 / 4) (#28)
by lowapproach on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 09:24:50 PM PST
Searching for a footstool and not finding one, Billy probably began pulling selections from his private library that had enough size to provide him adequate height and support for hanging himself. If you were also to find the "S" Volume of your Encyclopedia Britannica, the phone directory and a King James Bible with easily read print in that stack, his frustration in life clearly had other roots. The police blotters are full of people who reach a point of dangerous self-loathing because of the second most used consonant in the English language, pizza delivery ads and the meaning of the Trinity.

In all likelihood, your failure as a parent to instill confidence in your son had the most to do with this, with latent homosexuality and meth addiction as contributing factors.

Sincerely, Richard Garfield, CEO, Wizards of the Coast.


 
tired of people like this (4.25 / 4) (#30)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 10:28:55 PM PST
Ive been a Roleplayer for 20 years now and a Police detective for over 6. I am soo tired of people like this who are looking for something to blame their problems on, be it Dungeons and Dragons, video games, or rock music. Let's call a spade a spade, if you say your child is trying to escape reality by playing the game then how about trying to figure out WHY! Could it be maybe because its the parents?
Children like their own time to socialize, and I have NEVER seen any cases where Roleplaying made someone do anything. The stories that go around are nothing but assumptions and opinions of bible beaters who just dont want to face up to the fact that they are their childs' problem, so they find some "evil" to blame it on. All of these so called instances have no concrete proof and as I said are assumptions.
I also greatly do not believe the credibility of this story, as if it was linked to RPing it would of made national news.


Oh Dear (3.00 / 2) (#39)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 05:03:36 AM PST
Ive been a Roleplayer for 20 years now and a Police detective for over 6.

I find this extremely frightening. Someone who is supposed to uphold the law who spends his spare time slashing at Goblins, thieving and having irresponsible, imaginary sex.

I do hope you wear a condom in you sex adventures in the world of D&D, but I somehow suspect you have been corrupted and lost all sense of safety.

Here is my real question though. Don't you think it irresponsible that you have your pastime? Don't you think it could kill someone in the real world? Suppose you have to arrest a criminal who is holding a young mother hostage, and you forget that this is real life and that you don't have 19+ charisma to calm the criminal down and the woman doesn't have 22 hitpoints, and that the combat isn't in fact turn based giving you plenty of time to consider and react?

I urge you to give it up. Someone could easily get killed, you know.


omfg how insane! (5.00 / 1) (#58)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 10:55:02 AM PST
my mind is twisted! I run track, but i can't go very fast, because the dungeons and dragons rules assume i can only run 360 feet in a minute!

are you insanely retarded or just a republican, uh, er nm..




What are you holding? (none / 0) (#79)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Aug 3rd, 2001 at 08:07:12 AM PST
360 ft/minute may be slow, but try running in a full suit of armor, bristling with large steel weapons and carrying bags of loot.


 
Let's take this article piece by piece (4.00 / 3) (#35)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 01:45:55 AM PST
Let's take this article piece by piece:
>> Whereas the religious are taught to love their neighbors, Dungeons adherents are encouraged to despise them as detractions from the task at hand: perpetuating the Dungeons movement and its subversive goals. <<

hence the Crusades... lead by none other than people wielding a bible in one hand and a sword in the other.... "love your neighbors, but kill them if they follow a different religion than yours"

Or the various Jyhads by other religions. Yes, lots of love there.

>>Extremist and unconventional
Dungeons adherents are renowned for their iconoclastic lifestyles. The very fact alone that they would rather spend their time sitting around a table massaging integers instead of breathing the fresh air of our fair planet is enough to prove my point. <<

as the other poster mentioned... people sit around a table for endless hours playing bridge (they massage integers and keep a tally)

In most urban areas, it is safer for a kid to sit at home around a table than for that kid to "breath the fresh air" outdoors. Smog. Stray bullets. Muggers with guns and knives (who must surely play D&D too). And of course, the ever dangerous drive by bible-thumping.

>> Authoritarian regimes all share the common fact of strict rules directing their subjects' lives in the minutest detail. When I cracked open those Dungeons tomes, what did I find? Heaps and heaps of rules governing how adherents are supposed to go about even basic tasks like purchasing goods and speaking to non-adherents (when allowed). <<

next time, go to the library and crack open your local city law... you might be surprised how much thicker said book is, compared to a game's manual.

>> Charismatic leader
Like all cults, Dungeons has its charismatic leader <<

Oh, you mean Clinton. No wait, you just mean Kennedy. Or are you really talking about Elvis?

>> Does your child spend excessive amounts of time with friends unsupervised indoors? <<

must be having unprotected sex with his male compatriots

>> Does he question the rules and commands you lay down as a parent? <<

Of course not... you've brainwashed him to follow all -your- orders, oh charismatic one. Without question. Without choice.

>> Are his grades slipping of late? <<

must be because he's busy pumping iron and playing sports instead of spending quality time reading books. Words like "constitution" and "fortitude" surely are not SAT words that might be needed. Nope, definitely better to expand one's mind by ramming it against some 200 pound athelete.

>> At this point, you should be thinking: "How do I talk to my kids about Dungeons?" It isn't merely a question I wish I had known the answer to; it's a question I wish I had known to ask myself. If only I had spoken to Billy before he could have gotten in with the wrong crowd and done this to himself! <<

but earlier on...

>> I knew my Billy. I watched what he eat, how much he slept, which friends he played with, and everything else, trying to be the best parent I could and trying to make sure he was safe and happy. <<

you must've done really well watching him then... he must be a magician to have slipped those books past your ever watchful eyes, oh great and charismatic one. Let me guess, he disabled your surveilance cameras, a trick he learned from reading Clancy novels.

btw, reread the statement above and your quote about "authoritarian"


damnit, learn the meanings of your words: (3.00 / 2) (#44)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 07:52:47 AM PST
"jyhad" is an arabic word that translates roughly to "struggle" in english. it is NOT a war, holy war, or any of the other misinterpertations put forth by the subtly anti-Islamic sects of the world.


And the traditional english spelling is (3.00 / 2) (#47)
by greyrat on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 08:23:49 AM PST
jihad


Jihad (none / 0) (#107)
by Anonymous Reader on Sat Aug 4th, 2001 at 03:49:26 PM PST
Actually the Abu Sayeff, an Islamic Terrorist organisation in the pacific, has declared that their actions are part of the Jihad. It is not just Cristian-centric views that confuse the meaning of this word.

But then again words are defined by their usage not their roots.


 
A voice of reason? (5.00 / 2) (#40)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 06:00:58 AM PST
Greetings. I am a 30-year-old roleplayer with a wife and two children..not that this qualifies me as a shining example of humanity. I belong to no organized religion and have many hobbies and interests.
I've noticed quite a few immature and scathing replies to this editorial that are doing the "cause" not one bit of good. So, here I am.
I am not a cultist...I have no interest in religion of any kind.
I am deeply sorry for the loss of your son and realize that you need to place the blame somewhere. Choosing to place the blame on a game was extreme and based upon biased/uninformed views. Yes, I see that you claim to have read the rulebooks. I see that you seem to have researched numerous facts to back your claims. You've also presented the facts in such a way that twists the truth.
Roleplayers went through this witch-hunt mentality in the 80s and we are due to endure it again from time-to-time. There was nothing to support the extremist claims then and there is even less now.
There are obsessive people in the world. Perhaps your son was one of them...I have no way of knowing.
Your broad defintitions apply equally to nearly any hobby or pursuit. We fear that which we don't understand and you definitely do not understand roleplaying as a hobby. Yes, hobby...not cult. Not religion.
Perhaps you should ask yourself what else was wrong in your child's life. You do not seem to have a definite answer for why he chose to kill himself. There is rarely a single reason for suicide. Feel free to live your life and to share your views. Those of us who enjoy the hobby know better and can only wonder at the mentallity that blames anyone's problems on a game, no matter how complex.
Your opinions are exactly that and do not create reality for anyone but yourself. I have a job in the real world. I have many interests that involve the real world. Dungeons and Dragons (along with other RPGs) is a game enjoyed by many people who do not give in to depression by committing suicide. Some players do get the wrong idea about how the games work and they should receive a little guidance from other players who simply enjoy the game for what it is.
Children (and adults) should be exposed to all the pursuits that life has to offer. They should be allowed to make educated decisions based on fact...not opinion.
I use the words GAME and PURSUIT intentionally and with emphasis for that is what we are discussing. Anything can be twisted and misunderstood, including religion. Religion should be kept in the home and in the church...and perhaps in the consenting community.

Be well.


RE: A voice of Reason (5.00 / 2) (#50)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 09:25:53 AM PST
Well said.

I am not here to bash a mother or her dead son, nor am I here to try and console her in her grief. That is not my place.

But I am here to ask one question: Beatrice, why is it that you feel you must scapegoat and persecute a group of people, most of whom are intelligent, thoughtful, and caring, without bothering to even question the word of your sources?

"I visited the library. I spoke to other parents. I telephoned the chaplain at my husband's military base. And I fired up my Internet. And I learned the awful truth: my Billy had fallen in with a cult."

The Library is a good start, but in my experience, you are unlikely to find any unbiased information about role-playing games at the library - as the above reader posted, when we went through a witch-hunt in the mid-80's, most libraries removed any pro-RPG material from their shelves, fearing the wrath of the general public. Censorship at its best.

Further, where did these 'other parents' get their information? Probably the same sources as you did - hearsay, urban legends, and chain letters.

And you spoke with a Military Chaplin? Did it occur to you to 1) question his opinion, 2) seek the opinion of a non-military pastor or priest, or 3) even WONDER if he was biased for some reason?

After all, if anyone on earth fits your definition of a cult it would be the military (...generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader). Extremist, unconventional lifestyles? Basic training, anyone? I need not even elaborate the obvious connection to an 'authoritarian, charismatic leader'. (SIR, YES SIR!)

As my final note on this topic, I can deduce that you have never spoken, at any length, with anyone who has ever played this game seriously. I have never, in 13 years, heard it referred to only as Dungeons. We either refer to it as D&D, or Dungeons and Dragons. A quibble, to be sure, but telling nonetheless.

Now, lest you dismiss my claims as the irrelevant postings of a hurt and deranged fan-boy, I will tell you a little about myself. I am 26, married to a school teacher (in a heterosexual, monogamous marriage); I graduated from the University of California, Santa Barbara with Honors, and am pursuing my Masters of Fine Arts. I have been playing Role-Playing games, including but not limited to Dungeons and Dragons for literally half my life.

Allow me to respond to your 'concerns'

Does your child spend excessive amounts of time with friends unsupervised indoors?

I tried, at the tender age of twelve and thirteen, to fit in with the normal, healthy, sports minded kids. I was painfully and frequently rejected; I am too smart, I was too weak and uncoordinated, I just wasn't cool enough. Then, something happened. The 'social outcasts', the 'geeks', saw my pain, saw that I could never fit in with the jocks, saw that they could shield me from that, and said, without any preamble, "why don't you hang out with us?" Just like that, I had friends, I had a place in the pecking order, and I was less likely to get beaten up by the 'normal kids' because I had a group. Yes, I was a geek, and that one moment relegated me for the rest of my life to one specific place in society. I cannot help but think, though, that they saved me from a lifetime of miserably trying to be something I am not. You will find, if you ask, that nearly every Role-Player in this world can relate to that story.

Does he question the rules and commands you lay down as a parent?

I should hope so. One of the main responsibilities we have as parents is to teach our children to think for themselves, to make their own decisions, and to judge right from wrong. Yes, the parent should of course have the last say. But to teach your children blind obedience is to teach them to be sheep, always following the herd.

Are his grades slipping of late?

Where did this come from? Most Role Players I have ever encountered are among the smartest, most creative and driven students in school. Look closely among the computer classes, the science classes, the math classes, and you will find that a good portion of the top students play RPG's. Certainly, my group in junior high and high school were amongst the best and brightest, and we are now, nearly to a person, very successful and very happy.

I would also encourage you to look within the military itself. A big portion of our soldiers play or has played role-playing games as a hobby. In my current group, two out of the eight players are ex-military, USMC and USN, to be specific, and I know of quite a few more.

Finally, if you are open enough to examine the other side, I would encourage you to look at this website:

It is an eloquent, thoughtful argument for the benefits of Role Playing, by a Christian writer.

Beatrice, I am sorry you lost your son. I hope you find out the true reason he killed himself, because I sincerely doubt that Dungeons and Dragons had anything to do with it. Don't be blind in your grief, and don't presume to judge us. That isn't your job, it's God's.

Jericho


 
This ker-azy DnD thing. (none / 0) (#134)
by Anonymous Reader on Sun Feb 10th, 2002 at 11:53:21 AM PST
Look. Ok, I'm sorry your son died, but to be blunt, he probably stood on the rulebooks for their slideyness and thickness. My friend goes to a fully Catholic school, and they have started a club for Dungeons and Dragons. They have also started Warhammer and WH40K clubs. All of these games could be misconstrued to be satanic.

Later.


 
Stop it! (5.00 / 4) (#42)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 06:57:13 AM PST
All you posters defending D&D must stop now! How dare you attempt to use logic and rational thought to make your position. Don't you realize that D&D must be demonized at all costs? There are thousands of housewives who will have nothing to do if you can prove that it is only a game and is not some sinister death cult. Won't someone please think of the housewives?


housewives (5.00 / 1) (#54)
by bhc on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 10:22:18 AM PST
they're made of people, PEOPLE!


Um, noone eats housewives... (none / 0) (#71)
by suick on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 07:45:26 PM PST


c'mon, lower.

 
D&D games and suicide (5.00 / 3) (#49)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 08:45:00 AM PST
I have allowed my sons to play D&D for the last four years. I have observed them in their playing. When they play they are laughing and joking around. They develop a strategy to accomplish goals and they all work together. They enjoy getting together and playing what I deem as a harmless game. Believe me I would not let them play this game if I thought there anything negative about it. I am deeply sorry for the loss of your son. Suicide is so hard to see coming. When it happens ones try to find a reason for it. We don't want to blame ourselves for not seeing it coming so we try to find another reason for it happening. I want to stress it is not your fault nor the game. It is probably many things, school, peer pressure, poor self-esteem, a feeling of helplessness--all these things are what causes one to take one's life. Games and tv probably don't help as they don't take that negative feeling away unfortunately. When you see your child sad and unhappy you think it just part of the teen-age phase. A mistake many of us make. One needs to keep the lines of communication open with your teens. LISTEN TO THEM and talk with them (not at them). Share your thoughts and feelings. Let them do this also. It may make a big difference. Give them space but let them know you are there. Hopefully, they will come to you. If you see it as a more serious problem get help now. Just don't assume it will pass sometimes it doesn't. I hope that you find peace. My heart goes out to you. Find a way to honor your son memory. Don't try to find a "blame".


 
jeezus peanut butter cups, people! (5.00 / 3) (#51)
by hyacinth on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 09:42:12 AM PST
An ill-informed article about D&D collects dozens of angry comments? Really...

D&D is so passe...there are much better ways to enter the dark realm of devil worship, debauchery, and disregard for human life:

Vampire, the Masquerade

Killer

Call of Cthulhu

All Flesh Must Be Eaten

--Hyacinth
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.

good god! (none / 0) (#65)
by shren on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 03:56:06 PM PST
I can't believe you forgot Kult. It's *the* sick and twisted game, taking some of the reality bending themes and throwing in bits of other crap. Very dark.


 
Vampire's Masquerade (5.00 / 1) (#127)
by nx01 on Mon Aug 27th, 2001 at 02:24:54 PM PST
I have some friends who used to be good Christians.

They now dress in black and wear fangs and go around in capes and decide important things by playing rock paper scissors.

The only change is that they started playing Vampire's Masquerade. It's made them... dark.


"Every time I look at the X window system, it's so fucking stupid; and part of me feels responsible for the worst parts of it."
-- James Gosling

 
dungeons and dragons (none / 0) (#55)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 10:43:59 AM PST
oh my god, i must be satanic!!

i play D&D!!!

did i forget to mention that both i and my younger brother are a-b students who are also very active socially, play several sports each and are quite untroubled?

some underinformed persons might assume that i'm lying, but i personally have over 100 d+d books, and i feel quite uncorrupted.


so what (5.00 / 1) (#56)
by jsm on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 10:48:31 AM PST
did i forget to mention that both i and my younger brother are a-b students who are also very active socially, play several sports each and are quite untroubled?

So what? There's nothing in what you have said which is inconsistent with your also being a Satanist. Satanists get good grades too ... suspiciously good grades.

... the worst tempered and least consistent of the adequacy.org editors
... now also Legal department and general counsel, adequacy.org

ummmm (3.00 / 1) (#59)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 11:05:32 AM PST
well, actually, I'm not satanic. Just a wiccan. Why? Because I feel that the most dangerous cult of all is the Christian church. When I think cult, yes, I think fanatic, but not neccessarily out of the mainstream.

If you don't think the church is fanatic, think about it... You follow a Pope. Who you'll never see.

You went on a crusade. Because of some dirt some guy you never knew was supposedly born on...

Your leaders stole from the poor in middle age england, and were the most corrupt people of their time.

i have to say, most christians are sheep, and those who aren't, aren't christians. I give these people a name: SMART.


SMART sheep, sheep nonetheless (5.00 / 2) (#70)
by suick on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 07:37:37 PM PST
Did you really mean "smart?" Or was the caps supposed to signify some kind of an acronym, like "Stupid Manhugging Aryan Reactionist Teens?" 'Cause that's really the impression wiccan's give off (assuming you represent the whole of your religion).

Ok, so now that I got that out of the way, let's begin.

First of all, by assuming that both the eastern orthadox church and protestants don't exist, I'm going to have to make the claim that you're grossly incompetent at posing an argument. There's nothing fanatic about following a leader, and catholics following the pope are no different than you following your stupid manhugging goth friends (yes, before you call me on making a wrong assumption in that last statement, I'm well aware of the possibility that you have no friends).

As for the part about "us" going on a crusade ("us" being Adequacy's english speaking catholic readers), I have only one thing to say: what? Do you have no grasp of the concept of time? Do you think your thoughts are being broadcast to us through some unexplained time-warp to the Middle Ages? Have I discovered some majikkal power bestowed upon your wiccan self? Or was my previous statement that you're "grossly incompetent at making a point" still applicable?

I really don't have much to say about your next point. You can read my last paragraph again to get the gist of my response. Regardless of the fact that this fun factoid doesn't have anything to do with christians being sheep.

Ok, so we've pretty much established that you're an idiot. What next? I think that I'll move on to your statement that non-christians aren't sheep. Who told you this zinger? Whoops, forgot--you're wiccan, not sheep. I guess you came up with the entire idea for the religion and it's rules, morals and traditions, completely independently of all other wiccans in existance. What's more, you assume that anyone rational will question their beliefs and come up with the idea that there exist gods in rocks and trees. Since all christians are sheep, none of them have questioned their beliefs. Your proof? They aren't wiccans. Real smart.

Basically, I think that there's a darker story in your posts. How can someone whose thought-processes are so non-existant make A's and B's in high school? Has our public education system gone that far down the drain? Something needs to be done!

c'mon, lower.

 
cults (none / 0) (#81)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Aug 3rd, 2001 at 08:45:07 AM PST
I thought the DnD cult thing went out in the 80's. Haven't all the parents that don't care enough to pay attention to their kids activities gotten bored with DnD n music? I thought they were blaming the kids acting out on other things now....isn't it learning disbilities this decade?...oh well...I suppose, if you won't be responsible for your kids when they're alive, you can't really be expected to when they're dead...


 
Third Edition is Blasphemous (none / 0) (#60)
by Logical Analysis on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 11:42:34 AM PST
I noticed that you mentioned that your son had been reading the Third Edition.

Well, I have a theory... does he have any Second Edition books in the house??

If so, then I can understand why he committed suicide. The changes between the 2nd edition and 3rd edition have ruined the game. TSR, who published the original AD&D were having financial problems and were purchased by Wizards of the Coast, a company that got rich off of the cheesy kiddie game "Magic: The Gathering." WoTC cheapened and dumbed down the classic AD&D and the 3rd edition is an insult to vetern AD&Ders everywhere.

Faced with a future of Dwarven Paladins and the loss of THAC0, I was tempted to kill myself too! I'm sure your son, who sounds like a dedicated player, suffered from a similar depression as I did. While I managed to recover, it appears your son did not... I'm sorry to hear that.

What we can do is go out in the streets and protest against WoTC and the amateurish Third Edition! Your son's death is just one of many that I'm sure will happen when more and more veteran players find out that the game has been ruined!


Blasphemy? (5.00 / 1) (#61)
by SpaceGhoti on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 12:33:32 PM PST
What's with all the ill will toward Third Edition? I thought that altering the dice tallies was a good thing. I no longer have to figure out if I'm supposed to roll above or below a target number based on an arbitrary rule. Now I just have to roll above a certain number to achieve a task. Furthermore, the modification of skill points and class feats has only served to enrich the game.

Worse than debating the evils of gaming, are we going to spark a holy war over Second and Third Edition D&D rules?

- Spaceghoti, the Third Level Kick-Ass D&D Monk



A troll's true colors.

 
Don't Blame the Game (none / 0) (#63)
by Nitewraith on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 01:46:02 PM PST
Beatrice, I'm sorry that your son committed suicide, but you need to look deeper than just Dungeons and Dragons to find a reason why. I would like to ask you a few questions.

1. When you were a little girl, did you play with Barbie and Ken? If so, that was role-playing and a game.

2. Did you ever play Cowboys and Indians or Cops and Robbers? If so, those were role-playing games also.

All our lives we play role-playing games and don't even know it. When E. Gary Gygax and David Arrnison (don't know if the names are spelle correctly) created Dungeons and Dragons in the mid-70's, what they did was create rules and statistics for these type of games that the players had to follow. They just placed them in a fantasy world modled after Tolken's Middle Earth.

In my former gaming group we had all types of players, from a Baptist Minister to a High School History Teacher. We also had familys that played together.

Dungeons and Dragons is not a cult, but it is a hobby. The only rules I have for players is to be able to distinguish between Fantasy and Reality. That is the downside to most of these tragic stories. The players that can't make that distingushment are those that need to seek some professional help. Be it a school counseler or a psycologist.

That's all I have to say on this subject right now.


 
Strat's Two Cents (5.00 / 1) (#67)
by Strat on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 04:27:39 PM PST
Blah,

First, I believe that this story was fictional and I'm quite amused by the staunch defenders of D+D and RPGs at large. There were some valid points expressed in the article, so I will address those momentarily.

Second, many of you listed your qualifications outside of roleplaying, so I will now do so to demonstrate my amazing length AND girth :) I'm decent at sports and I can get laid on a fairly regular basis which puts me easily in the top one percent of this website! I'm a super-genius. I have a job and make plenty of money. As for RPG experience, I started playing around the disillusioned age of 12.

Third, AD+D first and second editions are far superior to third edition. Its obvious.

Fourth, (deleted my scathing comments, as this is my first post, I'd like for it to not be deleted right away).

Fifth, RPGs are addictive. I've seen not one argument posted here against that fact. No matter how well-adjusted you are, it can get downright all-consuming, if you have in the least a competitive or addictive personality type. I learned about this when I discovered the joys of mudding. Mudding, to the layperson is sort of an online RPG, frequently played surreptiously in university computer labs. Its so addictive in fact, that I've been known to play 70 hours straight. To go without food, sex, water or even going to the bathroom for extended periods of time implies addiction. Many a psych paper was written about the mudding phenomenon at our school and I assure you RPGs fit nearly every criteria for the word addiction as defined by the psycho-babblers.

Sixth, grades do suffer. Typically RPG players are smarter than average. This is invariably true of the many, many RPG players I've been associated with. But....no matter how smart you are, when something consumes such a larger proportion of your time and energy, other areas of your life will suffer some. Many of my friends who are doctors now, at one time or another when addicted to mudding got 0.0 or 0.3 GPAs. Many of these kids were valedictorians of their respective high schools. Yet, their grades went down. Even mine went down, and I have 198 IQ. Not that that means too much. Mensa seems to be entirely peopled with morons, but thats another rant.
Seventh, RPGs and especially D+D are just such a tired old villain that its almost embarassing to see people still blaming it for their problems. You'd be better off blaming real villains like George W Bush.

Eighth, a lot can be learned from playing these games and they are a good thing, despite the negative things that some times accompany playing them, just like virtually any other activity. Real leadership skills can be learned as well as the ability to work well with others.

Next, no matter how much you do escapist activities, they do not free you from the truth, which is you have a real life to go back to. Escaping is fine, but you'd be far better served spending your time solving your real world problems than wasting your time fighting off hoardes of pit fiends and displacer beasts in a pencil and paper game.

Lastly, I am not satanic and I do and will continue to play these games, as I said, despite all the negative, they ARE a way to truly belong. Some of the happiest moments in my young life were to be truly part of something, even if it is an escapist RPG. Its a proven fact that groups of people when facing a common external threat(football player rapists, RPG monsters, etc) become closer. For me, and in my addictive manner, people became like family to me, not frothing cult members. If I can offer any advice on this subject of merit, let it be this, its fine to play these games or read the books, just be sure to do so in moderation and not in exchange for having a real life.

Strat, if you've mudded, surely you've heard of the name Strat :)


may I suggested ordered lists? (none / 0) (#68)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 04:36:23 PM PST
  1. They're easy to write
  2. They make for good flow
  3. There is no 3.



 
A Few Points (none / 0) (#92)
by mythusmage on Fri Aug 3rd, 2001 at 01:38:12 PM PST
Strat, you give something a high priority other things are going to suffer. A kid concentrates on baseball, every other activity in his life is going to get short shrift. A focus on DnD is no different in this respect.

Alan


 
Amazing. (5.00 / 3) (#69)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 06:39:31 PM PST
You know, I hear about stories like this one, and I wonder at how it's possible that I've watched Bugs Bunny cartoons for 28 years without ONCE ever dropping an anvil on someone!


Easy answer (5.00 / 2) (#72)
by zikzak on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 07:48:58 PM PST
Anvils are really really heavy and you would not be able to lift one. A Dungeons and Dragons 38 sided die, however, only weighs a few grams, and therefor represents a much greater threat than any cartoon.


I dunno (5.00 / 3) (#73)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 09:26:02 PM PST
I don't believe I've ever seen a 38-sided dice..............but then again, since the DnD cult makes people believe fantasy is reality, I'm going to use my blacksmithing feat to make one out of adamantine satan-blessed material and use it to protect me from gunshots.


 
Dungeons and Dragons (5.00 / 2) (#75)
by Female Bull on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 10:33:02 PM PST
Teaching a child respect,understanding,love,what's right and wrong begins at birth as well as to teach eating and drinking from a bottle.I ran into this from a link in a club I'm in.I am a mother of 5 and I'm a city girl.
I feel for your loss but you can not blame a death on a game or a song.I don't understand how parents do that.Teach and show them how to tell the difference from real and unrealistic things in life.Christians feel they must do as the bible says,the bible was written centuries ago.We can not live as the bible days because of many reasons.You have to listen to what is written and then take it from there.The bible also says:suicide is the one and only sin that can not be forgiven.Do you know why?It's because that person killed and is not able to ask God for foregiveness.
My point is don't just be the parent,be a friend from birth on because if you try starting a friendship at the teen age,it ain't gonna happen no matter how much you try.Your kid has to be able to trust in you as a person before as a parent and then you will be able to notice different things going on with your child.
This is my opinion...

What?! (3.00 / 2) (#76)
by iat on Fri Aug 3rd, 2001 at 01:48:26 AM PST
Christians feel they must do as the bible says,the bible was written centuries ago.We can not live as the bible days because of many reasons.You have to listen to what is written and then take it from there.

In other words, the realities of modern life make it too hard for you to obey the Ten Commandments so you're deciding to only obey those ones that are convenient for you?

That is not the path to salvation. You can't just take those bits you like and ignore those that you don't. By doing so, you are only deluding yourself that you are a righteous person.


Adequacy.org - love it or leave it.

Mosaic Law? (5.00 / 1) (#87)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Aug 3rd, 2001 at 12:12:26 PM PST
The 10 commandments are not the only moral rules in the bible. They are, in fact, among the easiest and most widely followed.

Mosaic Law is very specific and precise, yet rarely followed by Christians. If you haven't stoned anyone recently, then you are not living according to ALL of the rules in the Bible. You have picked only the convenient ones.

Leviticus 20:10
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

Deuteronomy 22:22
If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel.


You'll claim that Jesus overrode the old rules, with his new rules, so you don't have to obey the Mosaic law of Leviticus, yet you'll still pick and choose specicific passages from Leviticus that support the morality you want to believe in.



No problem... (none / 0) (#90)
by iat on Fri Aug 3rd, 2001 at 01:11:54 PM PST
If you haven't stoned anyone recently, then you are not living according to ALL of the rules in the Bible.

I agree. I never leave home without a rucksack full of my finest throwing stones.

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

Yep, been there, done that. I have quite a reputation as a fearsome slayer of adulterers and adulteresses.

If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel.

I've done that too. I even put them both on a plane to Israel, then purged them all the way back to the UK before putting them to death.


Adequacy.org - love it or leave it.

 
Christ and Mosaic Law (none / 0) (#117)
by Anonymous Reader on Sun Aug 5th, 2001 at 10:40:56 PM PST
"You'll claim that Jesus overrode the old rules, with his new rules, so you don't have to obey the Mosaic law of Leviticus, yet you'll still pick and choose specicific passages from Leviticus that support the morality you want to believe in."

Interesting, no? Especially considering that Christ himself stated that he didn't come to Earth to change the law.


 
Shheeesh! Only in america. (none / 0) (#82)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Aug 3rd, 2001 at 09:53:55 AM PST



 
Just a thought. (Remember what those are?) (none / 0) (#83)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Aug 3rd, 2001 at 11:15:06 AM PST
Hey, do you think that if Billy had chosen a stack of National Geographics, we'd be reading about the evils of Botswana's scenic Okavango Delta?


 
This is obviously a HOAX! (5.00 / 1) (#84)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Aug 3rd, 2001 at 11:27:25 AM PST
Anyone who has studied urban legends, or has bothered to do any research on this article will see clearly it is a hoax. Consider the following points:

FACTUAL ERRORS:



"I ran my hand along their spines, recognizing some but unable to recognize a couple towards the top. I removed them and brought them out of the closet and into the light:
Dungeons & Dragons Third Edition Player's Handbook
Dungeons and Dragons Third Edition Dungeon Master's Guide"

The actual D&D books in question do not contain the words 'Third Edition' anywhere on the covers spine, or anywhere in the text. There is no mention of 'third edition', or even '3rd edition' anywhere on the outside surface of those books.

"Like all cults, Dungeons has its charismatic leader, a bald moustached man named Peter D Adkison. Read his biography, as it's the first step all Dungeons adherents must undertake when joining the cult."

Peter D. Adkinson is the founder of Wizards of the Coast, a company that makes games. His involvment with Dungeons & Dragons is much the same as Steve Berman's involvment with rap music: they are both heads of companies that produce products. As for the 'required reading' of his biography, neither Amazon.com, nor Wizards.com (the website where one may buy D&D products) lists any biography of Mr. Adkinson. If this book was required reading, wouldn't it be easy to find & buy?


Another key clue that this article is a hoax is that 'Billy' has no last name; whatever city he lived in is unknown as well, which makes searching for any news stories or obituaries impossible. There is then no way to prove 'Billy' ever existed. Certainly, in this litigeous society of ours, if a mother truly believed that Dungeons & Dragons caused her son's death, she would sue the company. And such a lawsuit would make news. But a search of the AP wire reports shows no lawsuits pending or filed against Wizards of the Coast regarding a suicide.


The next clue to this hoax is the odd language used:
"...sitting around a table massaging integers instead of breathing the fresh air of our fair planet..."
"play stickball in the streets..."
"..any of a host of normal healthful activities."

While 'our fair planet' and 'massaging integers' certainly sound odd, they seem to be used more for suggestive purposes. However, 'stickball' and 'healthful' are words that have not been in common usage for more than 20 years. ('Healthy' entered common usage and has been dominant since the early 80s, thanks primarily due to advertising)


Next we look at the overly vague remarks:

"Dungeons adherents are renowned for their iconoclastic lifestyles. The very fact alone that they would rather spend their time sitting around a table massaging integers instead of breathing the fresh air of our fair planet is enough to prove my point."

Replace 'Dungeon adherents' with "Computer programmers", "Mathmaticians", "Internet Users", or even "Drug Users" and the statement remains 'valid'. Condeming a group for living 'iconoclasic' (different) lifestyles and spending time indoors is hardly a new or unique tactic, and this 'argument' is vague enough to fit any target group.

"Religions are systems of belief that consume one's entire intellectual outlook, a characteristic Dungeons typifies... Dungeons adherents are encouraged to despise them as detractions from the task at hand: perpetuating the Dungeons movement and its subversive goals."

At no point are the 'subversive goals' of the 'Dungeons movement' ever described. The author says D&D is a 'relgion' but never describes any beliefs beyond 'prepetuating the movement'. By this open-ended argument, network marketing (like Amway) is a religion.

"When I cracked open those Dungeons tomes, what did I find? Heaps and heaps of rules governing how adherents are supposed to go about even basic tasks like purchasing goods and speaking to non-adherents (when allowed)."

On the FIRST PAGE of the Player's Handbook, in a brightly colored box, in large type, is a disclaimer, EXPLICITLY STATING that the book contains rules for a game, and that in no way is Dungeons & Dragons 'real'. Of course, the author does not feel it appropriate to mention that. Nor does the author at any time state that Dungeons & Dragons is a game. If she had, the announcement that a rulebook contains 'heaps and heaps of rules' would come as little or no surprise. I imagine that this author might be horrified to read the back of a Stratego box, wherein it details a 'class system' of ranks, and encourages the use of explosives to get rid of opposition.


CONTRADICTORY REMARKS & JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS:

"I knew my Billy. I watched what he eat, how much he slept, which friends he played with, and everything else, trying to be the best parent I could and trying to make sure he was safe and happy. But I couldn't make heads or tails of what these books were and why he had them."

"If only I had spoken to Billy before he could have gotten in with the wrong crowd and done this to himself!"

The author knew her son, who his friends were, and 'everything else', but she didn't know what those books were? She'd never seen him reading them, putting them in his backpack on his way out the door, never noticed them when she cleaned his room? We're supposed to believe that a parent who knew her child didn't know her child. She knew who his friends were, but she didn't know they were 'the wrong crowd'?

"In fact, one of the easiest ways to spot an adherent to Dungeons is to mention Adkinson's name and watch the listener's eyes for that flash of recognition, as every Dungeons adherent knows his name and his vision well..."
"I would, however, even go as far as to say that only the especially slow-witted adherents cannot recognize Adkinson..."

OK, so 'every Dungeons adherent' knows who Peter Adkinson is, unless they're 'especially slow-witted', even though reading his (non-existent) biography is necessary for 'indoctrination'. See also: The Emperor's New Clothes. All cultists know Peter Adkinson, unless they don't, in which case they're very stupid. By this definition, anyone who does, or doesn't recognize the name of a person almost totally unrelated to Dungeons & Dragons can still be part of the cult.

This lovely piece of doublespeak also displays the extent of the 'research' done by the author. The Dungeons & Dragons game was developed by a man named Gary Gygax, about thirty years ago. His name and credit for design are listed in large type on the credits page of both the Player's Handbook and the Dungeon Master's Guide, both books the author supposedly had in her possession.

"...as though those dice could help him if he ever found himself drowning off a real-life icy floe or languishing at the bottom of a dark pit where he'd accidentally fallen while practicing unsafe and irresponsible exploration. This is what it means to be false."

This is a breathtaking lurch into left field. Up until this point, the author has made a repeated point that 'adherents' don't like going outside. (go back to the insinuitive 'massaging integers' remark) Now little 'Billy' is on an ice floe and exploring places with dark pits? This isn't just off-topic, it's a cheap scare tactic as well. "Dungeons & Dragons wouldn't help Billy if a gorilla attacked him in the kitchen!" No, but neither would 'stickball' or line-dancing.

So, going back to the definition of a cult:

"A religion or religious sect..."
The author has made references to the 'relgious' nature of D&D, but hasn't explained them at all.

"generally considered to be extremist or false,"
the author's proof of extremism is to point to a rulebook full of rules and claim that it's controlling a game. The evidence of false is completely contradictory to evidence offered previously.

"...with its followers often living in an unconventional manner..."
'unconventional' beging defined as 'not liking to go outdoors'.

"...under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader."
The leader in this case is a man with no biography, and if you don't recognize his name, that just means you're stupid.


"Here's a partial list of those warning signs:
Does your child spend excessive amounts of time with friends unsupervised indoors?
...Does he question the rules and commands you lay down as a parent?
...Are his grades slipping of late?"

All of these 'warning signs' are behavioral changes common to adolesence. Imagine a 13 year old who doesn't closet himself with friends, talk back to his parents, and let his grades slide for a term. What's really damaging here is that these behaviors are usually indicators for a more serious problem: drug use. If a child is spending time over at a friend's house, talking back, failing tests, and smelling heavily of incencse, than any responsible parent SHOULD search their child's room, not for books, but for drugs. A parent finding D&D books and mis-identify a drug problem would be tragic indeed.


"Dungeons, at least superficially, promotes independent decision making, though we all know this "free thinking" would be more aptly described as "thinking consistent with the tenets and dictates of the Dungeons movement and ideology". "

Once again we see a reference to the 'tenents and dictactes' of a game, but no further exploration. At no point are we ever told any of the Dungeons & Dragons 'ideology'. It's left as a shadowy bogey-man, with no substance, letting the reader fill in the worst.

"One of the myriad of sinister consequences of adherence to Dungeons is the sheer amount of squandered time spent convening and practicing its cult teachings. Dungeons is highly addictive and, if left unchecked, can push a child's entire life aside to make room for more Dungeons. "

Or perhaps the child is spending too much time playing computer games, or surfing the internet, or practicing baseball. At no point does the author suggest that any other hobby could cause a slip in grades.

"Friends made over Dungeons aren't friends at all. True friendship can only be forged through community-building activities like softball and linestepping. If you ever had to rely on these so-called friends in a time of need, then rest assured they would be no where to be found; alternatively, they could be found, but only playing more Dungeons."

Replace the word 'Dungeons' with another hobby, like like softball or linestepping, and you'll see how ludicrious this argument is. 'Friends made over a hobby aren't true friends, they're only interested in being around you when you're all engaged in a common activity.'

"Imagination has its place in a civilized society, but when its citizens become too far removed from reality, social upheaval inevitably follows."

Social upheaval comes about from unacceptable social conditions being forced on large sectors of the population. When citizens truly do become too far removed from reality, we instiutionalize them.

"But like everything else, excessive imagination can lead to severe emotional and physical problems."

This is actually one of the rare, valid statements in this article. However, the author fails to point out that obsession is the risk here, not the subject of that obsession. People are being diagnosed with Obsessive/Compulsive disorder, specifically needing to make several hundred prayers to stave off disabling terror of going to hell. I mention this not to attack prayer, but to point out that anything, even something generally accepted and viewed as positive, can be destructive if it becomes an obsession. And obsession is a factor of personality; who you are determines your risk for obsession, not what you're studying.

"At best, Dungeons is directly responsible for the social failures their adherents experience when mixing with jocks and beauty queens."

Now this is just insulting. Dungeons & Dragons has only been around for about 30 years. Socially awkward, intellegent children have been experiencing social failures with 'jocks and beauty queens' for a lot longer. The issues behind bullying are much, much more complex than one game.

"At worst, it can induce psychotic schizophrenic episodes like the ones shown in the 1982 documentary Mazes and Monsters."

Now this is just laughable. Not only was 'Mazes and Monsters' not a documentary, it was also not a very watchable movie. Again, this is the 'research' the author has done.

"Sign him up for the church choir. Get him to join a little-league team. Have him attend 4H meetings. There's a whole world of community groups out there."

Hmm. Interesting message. If your child picks up a hobby you disagree with, force him into another. No hand-eye co-ordination? Make him play little-league anyway. Asthmatic? Heck, if 4H doesn't kill him, it'll make him stronger, right?

"Dungeons adherents have even been known to kill their loved ones who stand in the way of their addiction."

Now this is just tasteless, especially with a link to Columbine High School. Neither of the shooters at Columbine played D&D, and even if they had, using such a tradgedy as a scare tactic to back up an already flimsy argument is extremely tacky.

"If you feel like you're getting in over your head, then call in a pastor or other prominent community leader to help -- I know my husband's army chaplain was a big help for me."

Here's another alternative that the author never suggests: borrow the rulebooks and read at least the introductions. Sit in on one of the 'sessions'. Talk to you child about the experience. Go to a hobby store where these products are sold and talk to the staff. None of these options are mentioned, despite the fact that parents informing themselves is considered a mark of good parenting.


"I'll never have my Billy back; he's lost to a world of dangers and temptations that have already too claimed many.

Another vague and misleading statment. There is no way to know exactly why some people commit suicide. Suicide notes are written during a highly emotional state and rarely reflect the true feelings of the victim. And the basis of this author's belief that Dungeons & Dragons killed her son seems to be that those were the books he stood on in his closet. Had he used two or three volumes of the Encyclopedia Britannica to stand on, would this author claim that a feeling of national infereority to Britan caused his death?

"I know Billy's looking down from up there and smiling. He would've wanted it this way."

This last remark is stereotypical of a 'glurge', a type of urban legend known for it's overly distored message and complete lack of provable evidence. Aside from the fact that, according to Christian dogma, anyone who commits suicide does NOT go to heaven, how can we deduce 'he would've wanted it this way' when we still don't have a reason for his death. Fundamentally, this last remark points out that the author has not explained HOW Dungeons & Dragons killed her son. It does NOT meet the definition of a 'cult' anymore than does Amway, Excel, or Tupperware.


Bottom line: A boy with no last name, in an unknown town, committed suicide by standing on top of a stack of books. Two of the books are Dungeons & Dragons books; therefore, Dungeons & Dragons must be to blame for this unknown boy's death. To 'avenge' this death, the mother is not filing a lawsuit, nor setting up a website. She's 'warning' other parents with inaccurate, distorted, and flawed arguments. 'Beatrice' does not sign her piece with her full name, or her city, since such things might make it possible to confirm her story. Nor does she leave an e-mail address, or have any other information under her profile. The advice offered is at best vague, at worst misleading and dangerous.

The managers of this site should remove this story at once, as Wizards of The Coast has been known to sue for such libel as this.


Chris Doggett
Portland, Oregon
ctd44@hotmail.com



Lawsuit? Nah (5.00 / 1) (#86)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Aug 3rd, 2001 at 11:59:23 AM PST
Thats a fairly thoughtful and complete argument about how this is obviously a hoax or a joke. I believe it is the latter, with the author (probably an adult male, not Beatrice), laughing at the people who take it seriously as much as at his own wit.

I think the bit about threatening that they should take it off the site is a bit much though. You can't sue someone just for ranting about something they don't like, or Microsoft would have sued hundreds of sites for ranting about Windows by now. Its a dementedly amusing piece, and I'd prefer it stay.

Creating a false character (Beatrice) intended to invoke sympathy, is a typical device for a wannabe urban legend such as this. Anyone then disputing the validity of their claims or refuting the logical irrationality of their arguments can be made to look cruel for debating with a grieving mother rather than taking her every statement at face value.



hoax? (none / 0) (#118)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Aug 6th, 2001 at 01:26:48 AM PST
I think this was made up be a pro-RPGer - put all the anti D&D shit into one place.


 
hmmm (5.00 / 1) (#93)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Aug 3rd, 2001 at 02:21:44 PM PST
You've presented a rebuttal of the author's conclusions, but somehow you're making the leap of logic between "the author has fallacious reasoning" and "the author is a hoaxter". Emotionally distraught parents aren't well known for their rational reasoning skills, and you should get to know some more Christian Fundies if you've never come across sincerely believed fallacy.


 
Hoax (1.00 / 1) (#125)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Aug 7th, 2001 at 04:48:58 AM PST
I think its a hoax by a pro-D&Der - gather all the bullshit into one story.

Shame on you Adequacy for the crappy story!
Anyone with half a brain cell knows that the Christian Right are a bunch of morons. End of argument. Move on.

An interesting story would have been to attack RPGers from the "left" - for example to point out examples of sexism and racism etc. in these games.




 
How ignoraqnt can eople be? (1.00 / 1) (#85)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Aug 3rd, 2001 at 11:32:52 AM PST
I can't believe how poeple can try and even attempt to blame a simple game for someone elses stupidity. Forgive me for being crass, but I have been playing D&D from it's earliest days, and I am about as normal as you can get. I have a professional job, I am successful, I am married, I lead a perfectly normal life. IT'S A GAME PEOPLE!!! Nothing more. It's like telling me that movies and music can influence people to be violent or suidical. If you ask me, it's the parents fault for not properly educating their children. So, if you want to look to some place to put the blame, look in a mirror. Stop pointing fingers at someone or something else when it's your own shortcomings that have caused these problems. Sheesh people, pull your heads out of your butts and get a clue.


Sorry, your point was lost (none / 0) (#95)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Aug 3rd, 2001 at 06:52:39 PM PST
When you offer critical commentary on a subject utilizing words like ignorant, shortcomings, and stupidity - and phrases such as properly educating their children and get a clue, you will have much greater luck at convincing others that you are correct when you learn how to spell and punctuate in accordance with the rules of standard, acceptable English.

HTH


 
Missing the point? (1.00 / 1) (#88)
by Seithman on Fri Aug 3rd, 2001 at 12:18:21 PM PST
You know, just for a second, I'm going to assume (againt my better judgement) that this is a serious story. And as such, it saddens me.

It saddens me that a mother would jump on a scapegoat to blame for the loss of her son. It saddens me that people leaving comments would turn around and blame the mother. It saddens me that -- quite frankly -- people can be so foolish when it comes to the tragedy of the suicide.

When someone kills themselves, it is not because friends or family have ignored him. It's not because he got involved in a cult. It's not because he played D&D. It's not becaue he listened to too much Marilyn Manson, Alice Cooper, or Country music. It's because he had personal problems and didn't know how to deal with them.

All of the things I've mentioned are just *triggers*. They set off the suicidal depression that exists at a deeper level, brings it out, and causes the individual to take their lives. Truth be told, if it wasn't one of these things, it'd be something else that sets off someone's suicide attempt. The trick is not to try to stop all the triggers, but to address the real problem. To stop a suicide, you have to realize this, and address the underlying issues. The individual needs personal and professional help. They don't need all of their D&D books or their CD collection burned. It won't solve the real problem.



 
My heart goes out to you... (5.00 / 2) (#89)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Aug 3rd, 2001 at 12:51:12 PM PST
...but you are not in the right here.
<p>
I've been playing Dungeons & Dragons (and other role-playing games) for nearly a decade now. Prior to that time I was depressed and had low self-esteem, having been abused by my fellow public school students for some time until my parents finally removed me from that environment and began homeschooling me. Today I am much happier (though I will always suffer from depression now and then) and my self-esteem is much higher.
<p>
Do I think Dungeons & Dragons did this all by itself? No. Did it help? You bet. Here was a world where I was not just another kid but a mighty warrior or a brilliant wizard. Further, it was a game in which I did not have to defeat the other players (and thus risk hurting their feelings) - the goal was cooperation. Even the referee or Dungeon Master roots for the players in an RPG such as D&D. He may set up the plot, place obstacles in the player characters' way and otherwise impair their progress, but he leaves clues for them as well, and ultimately, the goal is a relatively happy ending.
<p>
By the way, Peter Adkison was the CEO of the company that has published D&D since 1997, Wizards of the Coast. He resigned late last year after selling the corporation to Hasbro. I can tell you from personal experience that he is not terribly charismatic or endearing. He had a hand in the design of the new edition of D&D, but not much of one. If you're going to call someone the leader of a cult, please be more sensible about your choice.
<p>
As for being obsessed with the game; well, I do admit that at the moment I'm playing at least one game of D&D every week. It's more stimulating than television and cheaper than a vacation or trip to the arcade. And, further, I've begun writing for role-playing games professionally. Am I obsessed? No more so than the sports fan who watches every game in the stadium while wearing a ludicrous costume; in fact, significantly LESS so.

The fact of the matter is that role-playing games such as Dungeons & Dragons represent an escape - and can thus help prevent the deaths of those who would otherwise use suicide as an escape. Further, you can't play D&D alone these days. (There used to be solo scenarios akin to "Choose Your Own Adventure" books on the market, but not anymore.) Thus a group of friends is present who can notice the strange behavior that precedes suicide and perhaps take action to help their buddy out.

I'm sorry your son took his own life. I can't begin to imagine the pain you're going through. But I also can't imagine that your son would want you attacking an innocent game and the people who play it.
<p>
If you want to know more about Dungeons & Dragons and similar games, please contact GAMA (the Game Manufacturers' Association at <a href = "http://www.gama.org">www.gama.org</a>) or the Committee for the Advancement of Role-Playing Games (a fan-based advocacy organization with extensive archives on this subject - including rebuttals of a great deal of anti-gaming propaganda) at 1127 Cedar, Bonham, Texas, 75418. You might also check out the CAR-PGa's unofficial website at <a href = "http://www.theescapist.com">www.theescapist.com</a>


 
A Question (5.00 / 1) (#91)
by mythusmage on Fri Aug 3rd, 2001 at 01:19:03 PM PST
How do we verify this? Loosing a kid is terrible, especially one to suicide, but how can we be sure it even happened?

Allay my fears, assuage my suspicians, give me the information I need to check out your story. Officials to contact etc. I have heard stories like this before and they all are notable for lack of any way to verify them.

So give us what we need to check your story out.

Alan


For fuck's sake! (3.66 / 3) (#99)
by iat on Sat Aug 4th, 2001 at 12:53:18 AM PST
This woman has just lost her kid, and you're asking her for information to "allay your fears". How insensitive are you? It doesn't matter whether you believe it or not, her son is still dead. At a time like this, the last thing she needs is to go dragging up memories by searching for information just because you're a skeptical fool who believes that roleplaying can do no wrong?

Has living in your fantasy dungeonworld turned you into a complete social retard? Have you ever heard of "tact" or "sensitivity"? I suggest that you leave your stinking dungeon^H^H^H^H^Hbedroom once in a while to experience reality, and then you may learn enough social skills necessary to stop saying insensitive things like that.

This comment applies equally to everyone else who has said "it's not real" or "I want more information." For fuck's sake, it's no wonder that society has chosen to exile you! I wouldn't want to associate with spiteful children like you either.


Adequacy.org - love it or leave it.

why ask for proof? (none / 0) (#101)
by Anonymous Reader on Sat Aug 4th, 2001 at 01:15:36 AM PST
Why ask for proof?

Well since it has been proven, without a doubt that many so called D+D related crimes, were in fact not influenced by rpg's in any way. This comes from the families friends and even the the defendants. Police and courts have often ruled that D+D was not a factor in these cases by it is often reported that way anyways.

Yes it is tactless, but so is the entire online world, along with the majority of the world. I wouldn't do it. But there is a legitimate reason to have asked.


 
No way to know (none / 0) (#113)
by Anonymous Reader on Sun Aug 5th, 2001 at 04:03:31 PM PST
Well I've never played D&D, but after reading this article, I thought it was probabaly either fake or satire.

If this woman actually exists, and her son really did kill himself, that's horrible. But I think it's just as likely that this is pure fiction.

So many things on the internet are.

Has living in your fantasy dungeonworld turned you into a complete social retard? Have you ever heard of "tact" or "sensitivity"? I suggest that you leave your stinking dungeon^H^H^H^H^Hbedroom once in a while to experience reality, and then you may learn enough social skills necessary to stop saying insensitive things like that.
Gee, I didn't realize it was gross generalization day. Whee let's insult the people who are different from us.

I didn't realize that was the way you went about being sensitive and tactful.


Maury Terry (none / 0) (#123)
by lysdexia on Mon Aug 6th, 2001 at 02:52:23 PM PST
was the originator of this. She had a kid ("Bink" IIRC) who committed suicide.

Bink was apparently into D&D. I can't remember the actual title of the book, but it had lots of red-eyed suburban kids with candles on the cover.

It did not seem particulary sincere to me, as it was published by a fundamentalist publishing house.

Her latest novel is here.

Not what one would expect a greiving mom to put out, no?


 
My thoughts (none / 0) (#97)
by Anonymous Reader on Sat Aug 4th, 2001 at 12:21:43 AM PST
No matter how close of a watch you kept on your son, he obviously still had his secrets. Perhaps the happiness your son portrayed was nothing more than a show for you. Having just grown out of the horrible teenage phase, perhaps I can shed light on a few things.

1) Do teenagers spend a lot of time indoors unsupervised? Yes. With all of the video games and new technology out there who needs to go outside to play a riviting game of Stick Ball? I, for one, hated the outdoors because of the bugs and the fact that I burn in the sun so easily. Besides, TV was much more interesting.

2) Do teenagers question authority? Don't any of you remember being kids? There comes a certain age in everyone's life when they want nothing more than to break free from their "restrictive" parents and become their own person. I think that every parent at some point in time will be able to share stories of how their teenager acted up some days.

3) Grades slipping? Entering middle school was the worst experience for me. I was tormented because I didn't fit in with the in crowd and had very little friends. I was so wrapped up in the conflicts going on in my head about trying to be my own person and figuring out how to deal with bullies that school wasn't quite as important to me anymore. Things actually got so bad, and I felt so low that I actually attempted suicide at the age somewhere between 12 and 14 many times. My parents had no clue, and still don't to this day. Fortunately, I realized that things would eventually get better, so I stopped trying to kill myself.

A friend of mine introduced me to role playing around the time when I was feeling low. I soon started attending conventions where I met many new friends who have lasted for years and who have been there for me in my darkest hours. People who play any role playing game don't think about it constantly. Most of the people who play refuse to let role playing consume their lives and they realize that there is a reality that needs to be faced. When I am down, I know that I can count on my role playing friends to help lift me up, and no they don't offer to run a session for me to take my mind off of reality; they listen to my problems and give me actual suggestions based on their own life experiences.

After getting involved with role playing games, my self esteem sky rocketed and I started feeling really good about myself. I soon wasn't afraid to try new challenges even if they seemed impossible. I started taking college classes at the age of 16 and will be entering college this year technically as a first year student even though I am actually a sophomore thanks to taking classes at such an early age. I now know that I have what it takes to make friends and also make lasting friendships. If it wasn't for the friends I made while role playing I would probably be a drug addict or dead because I wouldn't have had an outlet or friends.

It is always a shame when a someone so young commits suicide, but please don't place the blame where it doesn't belong. I am tired of so many people blaming music, tv shows, movies, video/computer games, role playing, etc. on problems in today's society. Always remember that not everyone is "alright". Just because a handful of people have placed the spotlight where it doesn't belong doesn't mean that we're all bad people and that we're all going to take the same route in the end. After all, not everyone who owns a black trench coat has bombed their school.


 
suicide cults (none / 0) (#100)
by Anonymous Reader on Sat Aug 4th, 2001 at 01:10:37 AM PST
The problem with D+D being a suicide cult is that it D+D has been around for quite awhile, aproximately 30 years. When any group is losing members at the rate a suicide cult would it eventually runs out of participants. Consider the Jim Jones cult, they committed suicide, there are no more members of the cult. The Heaven's Gate cult no longer exists because they were a suicide cult. The branch dividians though not a suicide cult managed to all die off due to their beliefs (and the government, there are no more Branch Davidians.

Statistcally according to the numbers given by BADD (Bothered About Dungeons and Dragons) the first anti-D+D group, suicide rates amongst role-players is dramatically lower than the population at large. Note many of the listed deaths by roleplaying are suspect, and some have been completely disproved by the media the grieving family and or the police. Does the fact that D+D players appear to commit suicide less than the national average, mean that D+D prevents suicide? No, a minor corellation can not scientifically prove any fact.

Also by historical definition Christianity, is a cult. In fact the Romans referred to it as just one many mystery cults. Christians by your defintion do fit all requirements of cult activity. Unless viewed through chrictian only eyes. Mass communion, baptism, confession, protestantism, hymms, all appear outside the norm for many non-christians. Chrisitanity itself is outside the statistical norm for the world, being that the majority of people in the world are not christian, especially if you only include the practising christians, like myself.

As far as 4h and stickball; I live in a city, there is a 4h club they have 14 members. That is less than .01% of the youth population. Stickball in all of my wiold childhood has never ever been played by anyone close to my age i have ever met. Most of the youth today don't even know what stickball is.

Continuing upon the physical aspect of roleplaying, the groups I play with regularly, contain no less than 4 martial artist, two others who spend 15+ hours a week in the gym working out, and avid basketball and fottball player on his highschool teams, two nationally ranked fencers, a cross country runner, along with most of them being avid paintball and airsoft players. Of the players I have gm'ed and played with approximately 3/4 were involved in either a highschool sport or other extra-curricullar physical fitenness activities regularly.

One last point I have never seen adressed there are many roleplayers in the millitary, along with within both cathoilic, protestant, jewish, and islamic, congrgation leaders; why have we never heard of any of theri foul deeds? Surely the millitary and suicide cult would net a few kills. I mean if i was suicidal and had access to m-16s, m203's, or even a m1911, i'm pretty sure i would manage to remove myself.




 
WARNING: Facts found here. Peruse at your own risk (1.00 / 1) (#103)
by Anonymous Reader on Sat Aug 4th, 2001 at 06:54:19 AM PST
Since I have gotten here well after this discussion has degraded into a flurry of gaming slams and religion bashing, peppered ever lightly with shining examples of logic and reason, I will not waste my time with a lengthy response on my own. I will offer these links to those who may genuinely seek the truth, however:

What are RPGs?
Haven't I heard bad things about RPGs?
Why do they have such a bad reputation?

As an aside, I find it insanely ironic that on the very page that allows me to post this, you can find the statement "Trolling is not tolerated here."

Bill
www.theescapist.com


 
Hmmm ....... (none / 0) (#104)
by Anonymous Reader on Sat Aug 4th, 2001 at 09:12:08 AM PST
Sorry mam,

I know you are hurt, but did it ever occur to you that your son killed himself because his mother was so far out of touch with reality that she actually thought a fantasy role playing game could be the cause of his problems? Maybe he wanted to talk to you and get some helpful advice, and instead you blamed Dungeons & Dragons for all the world's problems? That seems at least likely, while the idea that D&D is a cult is just plain ignorant and bizarre.

I hope you get some help from some qualified professionals. You are seriuosly out of touch with reality!


 
Games (none / 0) (#105)
by Anonymous Reader on Sat Aug 4th, 2001 at 10:59:07 AM PST
I am sorry to hear of you loss. I am sure he was a good kid who had problems. I don't know what those problems were. As for D&D. I understand that when one loses a love one this way you look to blame some one or some thing. I am sure if you think about it he gave signs of this depression. I happen to know alot of gamers and D&D is only one of many of that type of game. Yes you can get "Addictied" to the game just as you can with foot ball, TV, junk food, and many other things. The game can surve as a emotional outlet for childran and adults.

I know some people who play the games too much. But I think of them in the same light as someone who spends all there money and time building cars. The good thing about the game is it is a group activity and can create a socal environment for those who are not interested in sports and who perfer to talk and discuss problems solutions.

Some information: This type of game is call "Role Playing Games or RPG's"
They are not simply read but are ment to be a acting thing.
There are many kinds of RPG's including:
TOON were you play cartoon characters
Marvel were you are a superhero saving the world
The rules you read are simply use to resovle disputes
among the actors.

Consider the Tomes of books that discuss Bridge and CHess moves.

I hope you will come to term with the loss of you child and I personnal think it is wrong for poeple to attack you at this time. But when they do it is becouse you are attacking them and they feel they must defend a past time they like. Try telling a Baseball fan how stupid and childish the game is and see how they react. (PS: I happen to like baseball)





 
What can i say... (none / 0) (#106)
by uvc on Sat Aug 4th, 2001 at 01:26:48 PM PST
First, this is terrible.

I can't tell you how much I am sorry for you.

And I see you must be strong to keep going in your current state.

Remain strong.

I do have to disagree with you a bit.

Dungeons and Dragons don't kill anyone.
Dungeons and Dragons is a game.
like basketball is a game, like solitaire is a game.

But -

It is a different kind of game.

A game that uses the imagination in stead of muscles, a game where one can forget his problems and enter a different character in a different world.

A world of imagination where anything is possible. A wolrd of exitment and discoveries. The only necesity of the rules is so you could better imagine the story, and those are fluent.

as a matter of fact, d&d is only one of many 'role playing games' - some about entierly different times and places.

At least so it was for me. is for me.
But -
It should stay in proportion.

I didn't understand if your sun attempted suicide or wether it was an accident.

if it was an accident .... welll ... there isn't much place to blame anyone. and though playing with hanging rope is very unclever - accidents can happen to everyone, and will happen.

If it was suicide...

Well.

People don't kill themselves because of a game.
There is nothing that promotes this kind of activity in the game.

Role playing games by their nature attract weaker children. It fullfils few needs.
1) The need for friends. The rules and the use of imagination lets children interact more easyly. D&D can in fact lead to many good friendships.
2) The need to succeed. This is truely a game where everyone wins. You might even argue that it builds their self esteem. well - I wouldn't go that far. It requires more than that in order to do that.
3) It's really, plainly - fun.

so when someone is alone, unconfident and miserable....

he may enter the game.

and the game may be good for him.

but -

of course, this is only a temporary relief.
Eventually the boy must dealy with the real problems in his life, and the game can't help.

The same thing can happen to someone who picked science, or basketball, or whatever as a hobby.

If at the end he remains hurt, sugestable, and miserable.................

He may hurt himself.

Wethear if its hanging with the wrong company, doing drugs, or commiting suicide.

That is how I see it.

And it IS difficault sometimes for a parent to spot. sometimes impossible.

Beatrice, I am very, VERY sorry for your child.

But you should seek out the real reasons of his death.

Be strong.














 
Proof that D&D is NOT satanic! (1.00 / 1) (#112)
by Anonymous Reader on Sun Aug 5th, 2001 at 03:27:57 PM PST
You want proof that Dungeons and Dragons isn't satanic? Watch the film! Anyone who sold their soul to get that piece of crap made could easily demand a refund and damages from any court in the land.


 
more likely (1.00 / 1) (#116)
by Anonymous Reader on Sun Aug 5th, 2001 at 09:02:05 PM PST
Teenagers don't commit suicide because of D&D addictions (or compulsive piano playing or compulsive chess playing or an addiction to cheerleading or any other kinds of addictions). But here we have a teenager that is growing up with a father who is a chaplain in the military and a mother who believes that the world is full of "dangers and temptations". We also have a teenager that spends a lot of time in a phantasy world. Hmmm. There are other possible explanations, but are you sure you would have accepted it if your son was gay? And are you sure he would have known that? Lack of acceptance by their family is one of the leading causes of teenage suicide.

(A link to the Exorcist, by a supposedly grieving parent? Either Beatrice is seriously twisted or the whole story is made up.)



 
unoriginal! (1.00 / 1) (#121)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Aug 6th, 2001 at 11:19:39 AM PST
wow, youre so damn unoriginal, you couldnt even BS a real story! this is completly taken from a comic ive seen before by, oh guess what, more right wing racist bastards like all of you!

you have no proof that playing dungeons and dragons killed him! it says that it was a HEAP of books! from reading this, it seems that your stalking of him, while you "watched what he eat, how much he slept, which friends he played with, and everything else", you probabily drove him insane! did you beat him when he used vulgur language, did you teach him that "white people need to take the power back," i bet you did! YOU KILLED YOUR KID!


 
Control Freaks (none / 0) (#124)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Aug 6th, 2001 at 11:49:06 PM PST
I read this artical and i think its quite strange, I mean D&D is not as popular as we think it is and even then some people that have problems may take it into reality. I think that its sad that her kid died and everything but dont you think its alittle bit wrong for a person to hover around their kid day and night. I mean all people want space even 6 years want their own time, and usually for those who get pampered they seek thing they cant get or couldnt touch such as D&D.

Do you think her kid would let her know that he had that book? No, because he know what she would say about it. I dont think D&D is bad, I have played it before and it doesnt cause weird warps in the mind . Usually people who play already have a weird sense of imagination. I think that D&D can be played with kids at a young age (like around 10 or higher) . They employ it in cartoons as well such as Dexter's Laboratory. Just as long as your in the right mind then I dont think you would take thing so far, as for the story that was fed to the anonymous crowd its a bit sad and belongs on other places besides the internet. A war on rpg is the last thing this world needs.


 
D&D didnt kill your child (1.00 / 1) (#126)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Aug 7th, 2001 at 03:19:49 PM PST
you kid killed himself by the sounds of it
ive never heard of a book hanging someone!

and while i understand how losing a dear one hurts, and you
want to point fingers i dont think your thinking this through

ive been playin roleplaying games since i was thirteen
im now 31 and i refuse to believe that a game , by itself, could
do this.

d&d is role playing in its true sense
seek out gestalt and jung type role reversal therapy
i found it invaluable in dealing with crisis and stress in my life.
{under psycology not the occult}

in fact you might have found out your child had some problems if
you would have been open minded and actually sat down and
played a game or two with him.



BTW
by your own definition of cult, christianity fits in there too
{
except instead of being bald jesus was a long hair
and a vegan {also a type of cult}
and a jewish terrorist
}


and your research into AD&D is a little flawed

Peter D Adkison is not the creator of AD&D
he just did the third edition






 
dungeons and dragons (none / 0) (#128)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Sep 10th, 2001 at 09:17:26 AM PST
this is such a joke. first of all, if she was such a concerned parent, you would think she would have checked out D&D prior to finding her kid hanging over a stack of books. second, 3rd edition is so watered down and politically correct as to be fully mainstream these days. i have played D&D since the age of 7. it isnt a cult, it isnt a religion, and it isnt the path to hell for kids of the psycho christian fundamantalist order. its a game. see? with players, rules, and outcomes. win or lose, its a game. billy was screwed up in the head before he ever got ahold of D&D. i mean come on, if you cant glean "nut case" from the letter his mom supposedly wrote, then give it up. its a game. get over it.


 
haha (0.00 / 1) (#129)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Sep 25th, 2001 at 02:08:47 PM PST
I'm glad he's dead. Much better without this dumb bitch in his life.

lol

freaking republicans & christians be damned.


 
Duh... (none / 0) (#130)
by Anonymous Reader on Sun Sep 30th, 2001 at 07:42:53 PM PST
Hey, I thought I was pretty smart untill I read your tragic story. But then I realized I didn't know who the heck Peter D. Adkitson was. I felt actually kind of embarrassed, and then you go and say that I am one of the stupider cultists. I am really hurt by these acusations. I mean, come on, just because I don't know the name of the guy who published a game I play doesn't mean I am an idiot. I would personally like an apology because I pride myself on my intelligance. Thank you for your time and for reading this.


 
I Wanna Kill Everyone! (none / 0) (#131)
by Sontra on Thu Oct 4th, 2001 at 08:22:39 PM PST
Dungeons and Dragons is a game. It says that on the first bit of the book. So that everyone may see it. You do not go up to your friends with swords and stab them into them, and laugh it of. Dungeons and Dragons is an RPG(Role-Playing Game). In games there are always rules. Games are supposed to be fun and entertaining.
---
First of all, I admit it. I'm suicidal. I have often thought about killing myself. I have often wondered what death would be like. Yet Dungeons and Dragons didn't do this to me, any more then looking at the sun did. I have never been accepted for who I am. The few friends that I have can't even be called that. I have been ridiculed and teased. I have even been beaten up by those who call me 'Geek', 'Fag' or 'Homo'. This is why I have toyed with death, not because of some game which you believe takes people out of their real minds and forces them to worship Satan and kill everyone. In fact, I started playing Dungeons and Dragons AFTER I had these thoughts. It helps me to get away from my world. It helps me to just escape for a few minutes or hours a week. Dungeons and Dragons is probably the best thing that has ever happened to me. It has saved me.

Secondly, I am not Christian, nor do I believe in god. Or at least believe in god that way. My entire belief system has come around because it's what I chose. I at first thought I was Athiest. I thought god was the biggest load of Bull I had ever heard of. That there was some big guy sitting up in the clouds going 'I'll take you, and you...but not you'. God may or may not exist. It's not for you to say what's inside my mind considering you've never met me. You don't know what my motives for doing anything are. Even if you did, there is no way you could say.

Thirdly, Sure there have been deaths that have been related to Dungeons and Dragons. It doesn't mean that it caused every death on this planet that ever existed. And it certainly doesn't mean everybody who plays Dungeons and Dragons will kill themself, or their friends. Now, there may be people who play Dungeons and Dragons who worship Satan. That's their choice and even if it was wrong, you can't expect everyone to be like that. One person or one hundred people doing something can't prove a thing. Death happens every day. With your amazing logic ever person who plays Dungeons and Dragons are the people who will commit every crime on this planet. They are the evil that must be purged. If that happens then you'll find something else to blame. Maybe stickball maybe fish, but the reasons your doing this are because you want to blame somebody for your child's death. Maybe 'Billy' couldn't stand his over protective mother who wouldn't let him be a kid killed himself because of you. Maybe it was my fault. Maybe he had a bad dream popped out of bed and hung himself. I think that it's more likely the last one, as apposed to Dungeons and Dragons.

Forthly, I read the books over and over again. I play Dungeons and Dragons every week-end and every day online. I can quote most rules off the top of my head. I have brought my friends into Dungeons and Dragons. Uh-oh, maybe I'm a Cultist, dragging as many people into it and in the end, I'll get them all to kill themselves just after I blow away their characters, sending them into an amazing shock.

How stupid did that sound? If you said not really then smack yourself across the face and join my cult, if it did then you must realize how silly it was to read what you said. Your facts are miss-matched. Maybe it was an accident, but I think it's the fact that blame needs to be placed for you to feel ok. If that's the fact, you need more help then I do. I accept death as it is. It happens...Deal with it or get out.

And Finally,

Dungeons and Dragons is an amazing creative outlit for me. I am now writing stories that are great because of it. In English my marks are top of the class. In Math my marks are the same, as well as in Socials and Science. I am a smart teen. That seems quite different then the average student. In fact I think the average grade for a teenage student is something like...C, C-.

You don't play Evil characters and go around destroying good. Your usually the good(lawful) guy(or girl) trying to save the town, or stop the dragon, slay the un-holy. Yes in some games your the evil(chaotic) characters and go around creating havok. Well it's alot better then going around killing people.
---
Out of Mind, Let Me Go Kill It And Get Back To You.
~Sontra


 
dumb bitch (none / 0) (#133)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Dec 14th, 2001 at 11:26:47 AM PST
At worst, it can induce psychotic schizophrenic episodes like the ones shown in the 1982 documentary Mazes and Monsters.

M&M was a made for tv movie, not a documentary.




 

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