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 Dungeons and Dragons: Don't Let it Happen to Your Kid

 Author:  Topic:  Posted:
Aug 01, 2001
 Comments:
When I stumbled into Billy's room and saw my boy's limp body swaying from a rope tied to a ceiling hook in this closet, I could hardly see for the tears. My boy, my poor little boy, had snuffed out his own life when there was so much promise ahead. His death left a hole in my heart that can never be filled.

Dungeons and Dragons killed my boy. Don't let it kill yours.

justice

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It wasn't until the paramedics removed his body after officially pronouncing him DOA that I mustered the strength to make a closer examination. I wanted to know what Billy's last moments were like; what he was seeing and thinking when he placed that noose over his little head and stepped off into oblivion.

I looked down.

Before me was a heap of books he'd arranged as a makeshift stool to stand atop and then kick aside, doing the deed and sealing his fate. I ran my hand along their spines, recognizing some but unable to recognize a couple towards the top. I removed them and brought them out of the closet and into the light:

  • Dungeons & Dragons Third Edition Player's Handbook
  • Dungeons and Dragons Third Edition Dungeon Master's Guide
I knew my Billy. I watched what he eat, how much he slept, which friends he played with, and everything else, trying to be the best parent I could and trying to make sure he was safe and happy. But I couldn't make heads or tails of what these books were and why he had them. So I did what any responsible parent would do: after a few days passed and I composed myself, I set out to learn as much as I could about Dungeons and why my Billy had chosen those books to kill himself with.

I visited the library. I spoke to other parents. I telephoned the chaplain at my husband's military base. And I fired up my internet. And I learned the awful truth: my Billy had fallen in with a cult.

Dungeons is a cult, plain and simple. The definition of "cult", which Dungeons fits to the tee, is:

A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
Let's take this one piece by piece:
Religion
Religions are systems of belief that consume one's entire intellectual outlook, a characteristic Dungeons typifies. But whereas mainstream religions are a healthful addition to the plurality of human experiences and diversity of viewpoints that makes this country strong, Dungeons is a scourge of the lowest sort. Dungeons provides its adherents with no positive moral direction whatsoever. Whereas the religious are taught to love their neighbors, Dungeons adherents are encouraged to despise them as detractions from the task at hand: perpetuating the Dungeons movement and its subversive goals.
Extremist and unconventional
Dungeons adherents are renowned for their iconoclastic lifestyles. The very fact alone that they would rather spend their time sitting around a table massaging integers instead of breathing the fresh air of our fair planet is enough to prove my point.
Authoritarian
Authoritarian regimes all share the common fact of strict rules directing their subjects' lives in the minutest detail. When I cracked open those Dungeons tomes, what did I find? Heaps and heaps of rules governing how adherents are supposed to go about even basic tasks like purchasing goods and speaking to non-adherents (when allowed). But instead of teaching Billy some skills he could put to good use in the outside world, Dungeons forced him to trust his fate to the rolling of those cursed dice, as though those dice could help him if he ever found himself drowning off a real-life icy floe or languishing at the bottom of a dark pit where he'd accidentally fallen while practicing unsafe and irresponsible exploration. This is what it means to be false.
Charismatic leader
Like all cults, Dungeons has its charismatic leader, a bald moustached man named Peter D Adkison. Read his biography, as it's the first step all Dungeons adherents must undertake when joining the cult. In fact, one of the easiest ways to spot an adherent to Dungeons is to mention Adkinson's name and watch the listener's eyes for that flash of recognition, as every Dungeons adherent knows his name and his vision well, though they largely fail to comprehend its parallel to Scientology as a sinister money-driven enterprise [editor's note, by jsm]Scientology is not a sinister money-driven enterprise. I would, however, even go as far as to say that only the especially slow-witted adherents cannot recognize Adkinson, but since those adherents also lack the reasoning skills necessary to fall victim in full to the cult movement and could not mentally conceive of committing suicide the way Billy did, they're probably not the ones to be worrying about here.
Once you've recognized Dungeons for the cult it is, it's your job to spot the warning signs before it can suck your children in. Here's a partial list of those warning signs:
  • Does your child spend excessive amounts of time with friends unsupervised indoors? Dungeons adherents are notoriously reclusive, refusing to play stickball in the streets or any of a host of normal healthful activities.
  • Does he question the rules and commands you lay down as a parent? Dungeons, at least superficially, promotes independent decision making, though we all know this "free thinking" would be more aptly described as "thinking consistent with the tenets and dictates of the Dungeons movement and ideology".
  • Are his grades slipping of late? One of the myriad of sinister consequences of adherence to Dungeons is the sheer amount of squandered time spent convening and practicing its cult teachings. Dungeons is highly addictive and, if left unchecked, can push a child's entire life aside to make room for more Dungeons.

At this point, you should be thinking: "How do I talk to my kids about Dungeons?" It isn't merely a question I wish I had known the answer to; it's a question I wish I had known to ask myself. If only I had spoken to Billy before he could have gotten in with the wrong crowd and done this to himself! Children always listen to their parents as long as they know they love them and have their best interests at heart. With a soft voice but stern hand, you can make a difference in your child's life.

Once you have the proper mind set, you should start practicing your answers to some of the retorts your child might try to give in defense of Dungeons.

"But Dungeons has helped me to make lasting friendships!"
Just think back to the lectures you gave your kids about drug dealers. Friends made over Dungeons aren't friends at all. True friendship can only be forged through community-building activities like softball and linestepping. If you ever had to rely on these so-called friends in a time of need, then rest assured they would be no where to be found; alternatively, they could be found, but only playing more Dungeons.
"But Dungeons helps develop my imagination!"
Imagination has its place in a civilized society, but when its citizens become too far removed from reality, social upheaval inevitably follows. Imagination can be a healthy thing, in moderation. Imagination can be put to good creative use, as listeners to wholesome music understand. But like everything else, excessive imagination can lead to severe emotional and physical problems. If your children spend all their time in the realm of fantasy, then they won't know how to interact with their peers and with the bigger world out there when they grow up. At best, Dungeons is directly responsible for the social failures their adherents experience when mixing with jocks and beauty queens. At worst, it can induce psychotic schizophrenic episodes like the ones shown in the 1982 documentary Mazes and Monsters.
But Dungeons gives me a sense of belonging!
This is exactly what draws people to a cult in the first place; they substitute a cult lifestyle for the one they feel disenchanted with. Fortunately, it's also one of the easiest arguments to rebut: just find another way for your child to "belong". Sign him up for the church choir. Get him to join a little-league team. Have him attend 4H meetings. There's a whole world of community groups out there. Expect some resistance, but don't take 'no' for an answer; you're the parent and you make the decisions. Once he's found a new clique, he will forget all about that Dungeons nonsense, and he'll thank you for it someday.

Let me qualify that last statement with a little bit of advice: be prudent when confronting your child about his addiction. Dungeons adherents have even been known to kill their loved ones who stand in the way of their addiction. If you feel like you're getting in over your head, then call in a pastor or other prominent community leader to help -- I know my husband's army chaplain was a big help for me. There is no shame in recognizing your own limitations for what they are, and you don't want to jeopardize what may be your child's only chance for recovery.

I'll never have my Billy back; he's lost to a world of dangers and temptations that have already too claimed many . But Billy shall not have hanged himself in vain. His death's keen shall be a clarion wakeup call. We must all unite against the menace of Dungeons; only then shall we be assured of the continuing safety of our children and loved ones.

Hug your children. Let them know that there are happier things in life than spelunking around a dank cavern with only a dwarf for companionship. Let them know that no matter how they feel about themselves and others, that you care and want to help. Only your love can turn them from despair and self destruction.

I know Billy's looking down from up there and smiling. He would've wanted it this way.


A small error (4.75 / 4) (#2)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 06:15:26 PM PST
E. Gary Gygax is the creator of D&D. Wizards of the Coast bought TSR (which includes the D&D franchise) about a year or two ago. A complete mistake because the new third edition rules absolutely suck. I'll just stick with Rifts from Palladium Books and Heavy Gear from Dream Pod 9. Both great stuff.


Beware AD&D!!! (5.00 / 2) (#6)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 06:40:42 PM PST
Dungeons and Dragons is a game. It holds no more insidious allure than baseball, which by the way is responsible in a similarly indirect manner for even more crazy peoples deaths.

Just today a pro football player died due to heat prostration during practice. I know, lets stop doing everything that might be used in a negative manner! We can sit home and knit (with appropriately dulled needles).

Thanks for the incredible display of psychological ignorance I enjoyed it.




This is common (5.00 / 1) (#9)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 06:49:14 PM PST
Saline junior lineman, 15, dies because of heat stroke

Vikings' Korey Stringer dead from complications from heat stroke

Training dangers soar

I remember at my high school that when one of the players was doing poorly in practice, the coach would not allow him to get any water/Gatorade until he started playing better, outdoor temperature be damned. This sort of stupidity happens all the time and on every sports team.


Common in America possibly (none / 0) (#46)
by dmg on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 08:19:00 AM PST
No European would follow their 'leader' so blindly as this. Re-read what you just wrote: the coach would not allow him to get any water/Gatorade

Now I realise that you Americans take your sports very seriously, but think about what you wrote there. It is not for your 'coach' to allow or disallow things. I thought America was the land of the free. I don't believe you people would take this crap from anyone. Would you ?

time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration.
-- MC Hawking

Citizenship begins at the age of 18 (5.00 / 2) (#52)
by suick on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 10:10:16 AM PST
Children in America aren't allowed the same freedoms as adults in America. Use your head. Would you want to give a bunch of weak minded D&D cultists the freedom to execute their peers with "level 9 sorcery" sub-machine guns? No, because until a minor turns 18 he's incapable of rationally making the decision "who should I kill today?"

Free speech is another right those D&D loving sheep are denied. However, this is mainly because noone really wants to hear about how their "second troll cast the mage master spell +19 and then the game master called in a womyn spryte, who..."--I think you get the idea. These kids have no imagination, and no personality. In fact, there are bills being lobbied in congress right now dealing with this issue--many with highly creative solutions, such as mandatory choke-balls/muzzles for anyone who's ever attended a D&D gathering/P-Diddy concert.

There's also many other "rights" which get denied to minors in America, and trust me when I say that it's for the best. That coach you mentioned was simply exercising his right to teach those teat-suckling whiners a thing or two about character. Hopefully they'll grow up to be proud, strong Americans--real heros willing to point a gun at any sunlight-deprived-30-year-old-D&D-playing virgin.

c'mon, lower.

LOL (5.00 / 1) (#62)
by manifold on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 01:27:44 PM PST
Thanks for that :)




 
I'm an evil cultist! (3.75 / 4) (#3)
by motherfuckin spork on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 06:31:55 PM PST
As a player of many vile, satanic RPG's, including the said insidious Dungeons and Dragons, I am clearly part of the problem.

Please, flog me now, as my foulness has polluted the world about me. My mind has becomd tainted by the presence of false magic and false gods in an unreal world brought on by some books.

Clearly, the problem is not just D&D, but anything that causes one to utilize their imagination or to even image anything with their mind. Burn all books! Bury all games! We cannot have such sin-ridden blasphemeis corrupting the innocent and blank minds of our youth.

And then, as I am a terrible and foul heretic for playing D&D and even writing novels and short stories, I should be burned at the stake by my own parish's pastor, sinec that would only be appropriate for bringing my sinful and temptous self into church.

How will I ever be able to tell my son that I, his very father, played something as terrible as D&D. Or that I have gotten my 11 and 18 year old nephews to play as well. Yea verily, the world is clearly coming to an end.


I am not who you think I am.

You and me both (4.33 / 3) (#23)
by SpaceGhoti on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 08:32:18 PM PST
Not only do I play Dungeons & Dragons games, not only do I run Dungeons & Dragons games, but I also play and run White Wolf games such as Vampire: The Masquerade and Mage: The Ascension.

You realize what this means, of course. It means our conspiracy has been exposed, and we must kill everyone who has read this article. I'll make a challenge for an Advanced Celerity round. You try a Fireball.

Fnord.


A troll's true colors.

OH damn.... (5.00 / 1) (#53)
by opalhawk on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 10:12:34 AM PST
At least now I -know- you are corrupting me ;) .... I think I just botched my reality check though.......

You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.


 
This is worrisome (2.50 / 4) (#4)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 06:32:17 PM PST
I don't think my kids play D&D, but some of their classmates must (it's a big school). I never paid it much attention, but you've made me take a good hard second look. Thanks.


D&D (4.75 / 4) (#22)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 08:26:43 PM PST
Parents, if you're really worried about whether D&D is harmful to your children, get ahold of the book and READ it from the begining. It clearly states that it is a game that does not and should not have any relation to reality.

The debate here has been subject to misinformation on one side (Beatrice has suffered from a great deal of it) and hostilities on the other. All I can say here is that there is rarely only one reason for a suicide (of a young person). There is often many reasons.
My condolences on your lost, Beatrice.

-Tim


D&D (5.00 / 2) (#31)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 01:02:11 AM PST
for anyone interested in seeing the other side of this story in a calm well thought out manner please check out the following web site http://www.theescapist.com/
it is the rpg advocacy page.


 
Worrisome? Oh really now? (none / 0) (#98)
by Anonymous Reader on Sat Aug 4th, 2001 at 12:43:47 AM PST
Of course there are kids playing role playing games in the school. They are the quiet ones who know what's going on in class and who get the best grades. They're also the ones who are getting picked on the most for being "dorks". Yes, please don't let your child associate with these people for they might actually teach him something good.


 
your son killed himself because of you, you bitch (2.25 / 4) (#5)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 06:32:43 PM PST
subject says all.

don't blame it on a game


or would you say that a bunch of people sitting around a table playing bridge all night long fit under "Extremist and unconventional" also?

You're a fucking idiot. Your kid deserved to die. You should die too.


No he didn't (2.60 / 5) (#7)
by Beatrice on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 06:41:16 PM PST
My Billy was a good boy who never harmed anyone in his life. Why should he deserve to die? And why should I deserve to die for sharing my painful story with you?


good thing your Billy is dead... (2.50 / 4) (#8)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 06:44:05 PM PST
or else my Ryan would have to kick his sorry ass. Maybe he should kick your sorry ass for being such a loser.

BTW: you're trying too hard.




Cut her some slack (2.75 / 4) (#12)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 06:58:03 PM PST
Have you ever spoken to anyone who's going through a period of grief? Or are you always this insensitive?


 
For what it's worth (3.40 / 5) (#19)
by seventypercent on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 08:03:57 PM PST
I was going to delete this comment, as well as the top-level one where you call Beatrice a "b*tch", but on second thought I think I'll just leave them there. They serve as an excellent example of how these D&D games turn people into inhuman monsters. Are you normally in the habit of calling grieving mothers names, or threatening to kill their (already dead) sons?

D&D fans, this is your ambassador.

I hope you're all very proud of yourselves.

--
Red-blooded patriots do not use Linux.

I do believe that these anonymous posts (3.66 / 3) (#20)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 08:08:10 PM PST
are by more than one person.

not quite as clear cut as you'd like it to be.

and I agree - someone is clearly trying too hard.




 
live long and let evil prosper (3.50 / 2) (#33)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 01:31:34 AM PST
all it takes for evil to prosper is the inability for people to tell when something is bullshit and something is not.
This inability to rationally (note, not rationalize) truth from fantasy will surely cause the downfall of civilization.



 
ambassador? um... (1.00 / 1) (#114)
by Anonymous Reader on Sun Aug 5th, 2001 at 04:16:19 PM PST
"D&D fans, this is your ambassador"

This is like pointing at the judge of an inquisition court and saying, "christians, this is your ambassador".

You can't just group people like that, much as you'd like to.

Besides, how do you know the person who posted that even plays D&D?


 
Think of it this way (4.50 / 4) (#11)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 06:56:28 PM PST
By playing D&D he only killed himself. If he played Doom and Quake, then he'd kill a lot of other people. So at least he minimized the death toll.


 
dying (5.00 / 3) (#43)
by buridan on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 07:26:39 AM PST
there is no "deserving" in dying. you either die or do not. in this case the kid chose to die, probably driven to it by parents who did not care enough about his life to know that he had a good amount of dungeons and dragon game books and played the game, even cared about what those books mean, or had the mental capacity to interpret their meaning.

but maybe you believe in dogs, or gods, your choice whatever. then the gods took your child either to a better place or to a worse place, you have no choice or understanding of the matter until you sacrifice a chicken and read the entrails, if you lack this ability then a pig or goat will do, but maybe less accurate. once you know where your child is according to your dogs, then you can make plans on meeting them there upon your death. so you will need to take the proper actions, then get a pile of books, family bibles work, and a length of rope.

of course is this whole story didn't seem blatantly made up, i would give a different answer


 
The person you are responding to is an idiot (none / 0) (#122)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Aug 6th, 2001 at 02:06:23 PM PST
Beatrice:

The person who stated that you are responsible is an insensitive idiot. I played Dungeons and Dragons for years, I've travelled extensively overseas and I went to college and got a law degree. I don't think that Dungeons and Dragon had anything at all to do with your son's death. Dungeons and Dragons, like anything else, and have a very adverse effect on a person's life if it becomes an obsession.

As a father, I am very sorry for your loss.

Jim


 
Replying To: your son killed himself because of y (none / 0) (#74)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 10:09:24 PM PST
now that was so totally uncalled for and ignorant!


 
Don't blame a game for the misguidance of children (3.66 / 3) (#13)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 06:59:17 PM PST
As a Fantasy rolegamer of 23 years, and also a professional editor and children's author, I have to shake my head in disbelief at the niaveté displayed by Beatrice. Dungeons & Dragons most assuredly did NOT cause your child to kill himself. Your son certainly had emotional problems completely unrelated to D&D, and you are trying to use the game as a convenient scapegoat or reason to explain your son's tragic suicide. I say this with considerable confidence, as I also have an in-depth knowledge of psychology that puts me at the level of most Ph.Ds in that field (I edit and develop articles for many doctors and psychologists, many of which have been published in peer-reviewed publications).

Dungeons & Dragons is no more a cult than Pokemon or any other hobby or interest that is attractive to young people. Many of the young writers who I have mentored or taught over the years have been into fantasy role-gaming and have no behavioral or emotional problems at all. In fact, it is my experience that such children and young adults are more well-adjusted and emotionally stable than others. To blame a game is a cop-out; any parent who does so is sorely deluded and needs to take a long look at his or her parenting skills and re-evaluate how they communicate with his or her children. Take responsibility for your children and talk to them; don't displace your inadequacies as a parent on an undeserving target


Don't blame others for the game (2.33 / 3) (#17)
by suick on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 07:59:08 PM PST
One common trait among members of a cult is their complete inability to recognize that they're in a cult. It's amazing that with all of your supposed "in-depth knowledge" you don't realize this. However, I'm not surprised, if only because it's obvious what 23 years of brainwashing will do to a human, much less a human who willingly allows the mind-rape.

Also, while you complain that D&D being unfairly blamed for the death, you immediatly turn around and throw the blame on the parents. After what analysis? A brief 1500+ word essay from a distressed parent? Surely in all the papers you've spell-checked you came across something which states the fallacies of drawing conclusions from such incomplete data.

But no, D&D is your sacred cow, and any dirt found must be cleaned off immediately. By closing your mind so readily, you missed a heartfelt and rational expose by an obviously loving parent. It's too bad that you feel the need to flash [non-existant] credentials to make a biased view seem valid.

c'mon, lower.

the sacred cow says (3.33 / 3) (#36)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 01:48:24 AM PST
moo


 
You've got to be kidding (3.66 / 3) (#15)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 07:46:49 PM PST
First, this is just plain stupid. Yeah, I'm sorry your kid killed himself, but how can you possibly blame it on Dungeons and Dragons? It's not a cult, it's quite far from a cult. And it does develop your imagination. Oh, and just out of curiosity, do you by any chance read books? Why do you read them? I do, because I like to escape from my problems. Well, use your head, That's why most people I know play role-playing games, just to escape for 3 or 4 hours. Your kid had more problems than Dungeons and Dragons, people have tried to blame the game before. It's not the game, it's the kid.


 
No wonder, D&D blatantly breaks the Commandmen (3.00 / 4) (#16)
by Adam Rightmann on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 07:58:47 PM PST
I came of age in the 1980's, so classmates of mine were seduced by this game, and I have read a bit about it in various ecclesiatical papers, so I know what I talk of.

This D & D game encourages the belief in other gods, even encouraging the players to have their characters pray to other gods.

Many of the characters are encouraged to kill other people.

There is even a character known as thief, who makes there living by stealing.

Plus, who know what damage this game does to your soul by encouraging you to live a lie, false witness indeed.

Obviously, there is no place for a Good Christian in this game, and any Good Christian would do well to shun those would play this game.

I would say a pray for your Billy, but he's surely condemned to eternal torment in Hell, so I would rather save my prayer for the misguided Jewish souls in purgatory like, presumably, Chandra Levy.


A. Rightmann

Blatant Untruth. (3.60 / 5) (#29)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 09:35:57 PM PST
"There is even a character known as thief, who makes there living by stealing. "

I'd like to inform you, that this statement is not entirely true. A thief, does not make his entire living by thieving, they also involve fencing (Not the combat type), breaking and entering, assassinations, and other sorts of things. They are also very good sneakers, and they are useful in figuring out locks.


 
Living a Lie? (none / 0) (#94)
by LrdSlvrhnd on Fri Aug 3rd, 2001 at 03:37:18 PM PST
So... do you avoid watching television and going to the movies? After all, people watching "Friends" drives up the ratings, which convinces NBC to pay David Schwimmer and Jennifer Aniston more money per episode than I'll probably ever make in 5 years, thus encouraging David and Jennifer to live the lie of pretending to be 20-something NYC dwellers.

It's just a GAME, people. Lighten up.

Kevin


 
Well Adam, here is the scoop... (1.00 / 1) (#115)
by Anonymous Reader on Sun Aug 5th, 2001 at 07:50:16 PM PST
Life is eternal, her boy did not die. There is no death. Death is an illusion. We all are eternal Beings.

All physical life on Earth is illusion. We are all playing roles to grow spiritually, are we not?

My son, played D&D and was a renowned Dungeon master back in the 80's and is now married, has a master degree and works with computers & Education, so
please do not assume that D&D types of things are anti-God.

Life is to be lived, and then lived again and again until you get it right. The role playing perhaps makes it somewhat easier to get it right sooner.



 
My Plans.... (3.66 / 3) (#21)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 08:20:48 PM PST
Well, I have played D&D for almost 4 years now. I even got my younger brother and several friends to start too. Now though, I am going to go kill my mom, brother and all my friends then go hang myself using the "Rope Use" proficiency my 14th level Nazi-Elven Thief/Assasin knows!!!

Stop blaming a harmless game for your lack of parenting that led to your son's suicide.


 
Danger recognized long before (4.66 / 3) (#24)
by moriveth on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 08:33:30 PM PST
Regular readers of Jack Chick's insightful works are already well aware of the horrors of Dungeons and Dragons.

Not to mention witches, Muslims, Catholics, and the strong nuclear force.

Spread the word, friend!


There oughta be a law (3.00 / 2) (#38)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 05:02:32 AM PST
Whenever someone uses Chick tracts as a reliable trustworthy source, a modified Godwin's law should kick in and end the conversation.


 
scuse me??? (none / 0) (#57)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 10:50:14 AM PST
ok, 1st of all, d+d, not evil.

gun toting conservatives who do not allow their children to even witness any form of alternative lifestyle: EVIL.

-thank ya'll (EVIL DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS PLAYING WICCAN)


 
This is Incorrect (3.00 / 1) (#25)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 08:35:38 PM PST
Beatrice, you obviously do not realize what you are reading.

Your son most likely commited suicide because of other influences, not Dungeons and Dragons. The game is not a cult, it is just that: a game. Kids play cops and robbers in the back yard, and that obviously causes them to shoot other kids, so we should remove the United States armed forces because they are killing their kids.

That is very similar to what you are telling everyone. I am a player of the game myself, and my school grades are top-notch, I made the gifted and talented class, get distinguished grades on my writing portfolios, and score highly on tests. I do not know who Peter D Adskin is, and I've been exposed to the game for a long time.

Those rules you read are used to determine imaginary effects in an imaginary place. If your children are unable to decipher reality from fiction, then they are suffering from psychological problems and should most likely seek help immediately.

I've played the game for a long time, and I've never known anyone out of all those gamers to commit suicide. Dungeons and Dragons is not a religion; in fact, I have a good friend who plays and is a pastor at a local Christian church!

I've never entertained thoughts of murdering anyone (including myself), and I don't believe that I am tromping through a dungeon with a dwarf for my companion. I believe it is you who are the child here Beatrice, for being so short-sighted that you are unable to tell fact from fiction.

Any replies or comments may be sent to raistilin_magere@yahoo.com

I'll be more than happy to receive and reply to them.




 
Two Approaches (4.00 / 3) (#26)
by Bluesee on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 08:42:44 PM PST
From the opening paragraph and the last line, I can't be sure if this is a serious piece, so I will approach it both ways.

If it is true that your son killed himself and you never had a clue what was going on in your life, you must have an awful lot of guilt. Resolve to take an active role in your child's life, if you should have another child. I'm sorry for your loss, but it doesn't justify lashing out in anger at whatever he was into, it is obvious you are in serious denial about your role in his death, if that is the case. Plus you base all this anger and retribution on two books that fell out of his closet. Get some preofessional help to allow you to experience the grief that is bottled up inside you and coming out in inappropriate ways.

The more I think about it, the more I am inclined to believe the latter theory, however. That you made all this up and are tittering even as you read this. I'll spare any cruel remarks just in case I am wrong, but it is clear to me that abusers of a good system will destroy it more readily than thoughtful posters can restore it. Too bad.

Can you prove that your son killed himself? If so, tell me, where the hell were you all his life? How could he get this far astray without your knowledge? You may have watched what he did, but you never Communicated with him, else you would have known about all this. Such things don't spring up instantly, they take time to develop. Time and cultivation...

This is why, if you are sincere, you need to get help. Such righteous guilt turned inward will surely kill you. It's your life you need to save now, focus your energies on that, not on destroying a silly game.


 
Misconceptions... (4.50 / 2) (#27)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 08:56:28 PM PST
Beatrice, I extend my sympathies to you for your loss. There is no way that I can understand what you went through and what you are still going through, and in the same way, you do not understand D&D.

D&D is no more a cult that organized sports such as soccer or hockey or basketball; these people can be extremists (look at soccer riots), and they follow a charismatic leader (the coach). This is the definition you present. Many things fall into these categories. Rocky Horror Picture Show has a cult following, but no one accuses it of leading to murder or suicide.

Neither you nor I nor anyone else knows why Billy slipped his head in the noose, and to blame it on D&D is ridiculous. If you blame it on D&D, why not blame it on the music he listened to, or the organized religion he followed, or the food he ate or the water he drank. All of these are just as responsible for his suicide as D&D.

I am truly sorry for your loss, but find another scapegoat for his death. There is enough ignorance surrounding D&D and RPG's in general that it doesn't need a modern day witch-hunt or book burning because you cannot justify in your mind why your son chose to kill himself.


 
Maybe it was coincidence (4.75 / 4) (#28)
by lowapproach on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 09:24:50 PM PST
Searching for a footstool and not finding one, Billy probably began pulling selections from his private library that had enough size to provide him adequate height and support for hanging himself. If you were also to find the "S" Volume of your Encyclopedia Britannica, the phone directory and a King James Bible with easily read print in that stack, his frustration in life clearly had other roots. The police blotters are full of people who reach a point of dangerous self-loathing because of the second most used consonant in the English language, pizza delivery ads and the meaning of the Trinity.

In all likelihood, your failure as a parent to instill confidence in your son had the most to do with this, with latent homosexuality and meth addiction as contributing factors.

Sincerely, Richard Garfield, CEO, Wizards of the Coast.


 
tired of people like this (4.25 / 4) (#30)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Aug 1st, 2001 at 10:28:55 PM PST
Ive been a Roleplayer for 20 years now and a Police detective for over 6. I am soo tired of people like this who are looking for something to blame their problems on, be it Dungeons and Dragons, video games, or rock music. Let's call a spade a spade, if you say your child is trying to escape reality by playing the game then how about trying to figure out WHY! Could it be maybe because its the parents?
Children like their own time to socialize, and I have NEVER seen any cases where Roleplaying made someone do anything. The stories that go around are nothing but assumptions and opinions of bible beaters who just dont want to face up to the fact that they are their childs' problem, so they find some "evil" to blame it on. All of these so called instances have no concrete proof and as I said are assumptions.
I also greatly do not believe the credibility of this story, as if it was linked to RPing it would of made national news.


Oh Dear (3.00 / 2) (#39)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 05:03:36 AM PST
Ive been a Roleplayer for 20 years now and a Police detective for over 6.

I find this extremely frightening. Someone who is supposed to uphold the law who spends his spare time slashing at Goblins, thieving and having irresponsible, imaginary sex.

I do hope you wear a condom in you sex adventures in the world of D&D, but I somehow suspect you have been corrupted and lost all sense of safety.

Here is my real question though. Don't you think it irresponsible that you have your pastime? Don't you think it could kill someone in the real world? Suppose you have to arrest a criminal who is holding a young mother hostage, and you forget that this is real life and that you don't have 19+ charisma to calm the criminal down and the woman doesn't have 22 hitpoints, and that the combat isn't in fact turn based giving you plenty of time to consider and react?

I urge you to give it up. Someone could easily get killed, you know.


omfg how insane! (5.00 / 1) (#58)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 10:55:02 AM PST
my mind is twisted! I run track, but i can't go very fast, because the dungeons and dragons rules assume i can only run 360 feet in a minute!

are you insanely retarded or just a republican, uh, er nm..




What are you holding? (none / 0) (#79)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Aug 3rd, 2001 at 08:07:12 AM PST
360 ft/minute may be slow, but try running in a full suit of armor, bristling with large steel weapons and carrying bags of loot.


 
Let's take this article piece by piece (4.00 / 3) (#35)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 01:45:55 AM PST
Let's take this article piece by piece:
>> Whereas the religious are taught to love their neighbors, Dungeons adherents are encouraged to despise them as detractions from the task at hand: perpetuating the Dungeons movement and its subversive goals. <<

hence the Crusades... lead by none other than people wielding a bible in one hand and a sword in the other.... "love your neighbors, but kill them if they follow a different religion than yours"

Or the various Jyhads by other religions. Yes, lots of love there.

>>Extremist and unconventional
Dungeons adherents are renowned for their iconoclastic lifestyles. The very fact alone that they would rather spend their time sitting around a table massaging integers instead of breathing the fresh air of our fair planet is enough to prove my point. <<

as the other poster mentioned... people sit around a table for endless hours playing bridge (they massage integers and keep a tally)

In most urban areas, it is safer for a kid to sit at home around a table than for that kid to "breath the fresh air" outdoors. Smog. Stray bullets. Muggers with guns and knives (who must surely play D&D too). And of course, the ever dangerous drive by bible-thumping.

>> Authoritarian regimes all share the common fact of strict rules directing their subjects' lives in the minutest detail. When I cracked open those Dungeons tomes, what did I find? Heaps and heaps of rules governing how adherents are supposed to go about even basic tasks like purchasing goods and speaking to non-adherents (when allowed). <<

next time, go to the library and crack open your local city law... you might be surprised how much thicker said book is, compared to a game's manual.

>> Charismatic leader
Like all cults, Dungeons has its charismatic leader <<

Oh, you mean Clinton. No wait, you just mean Kennedy. Or are you really talking about Elvis?

>> Does your child spend excessive amounts of time with friends unsupervised indoors? <<

must be having unprotected sex with his male compatriots

>> Does he question the rules and commands you lay down as a parent? <<

Of course not... you've brainwashed him to follow all -your- orders, oh charismatic one. Without question. Without choice.

>> Are his grades slipping of late? <<

must be because he's busy pumping iron and playing sports instead of spending quality time reading books. Words like "constitution" and "fortitude" surely are not SAT words that might be needed. Nope, definitely better to expand one's mind by ramming it against some 200 pound athelete.

>> At this point, you should be thinking: "How do I talk to my kids about Dungeons?" It isn't merely a question I wish I had known the answer to; it's a question I wish I had known to ask myself. If only I had spoken to Billy before he could have gotten in with the wrong crowd and done this to himself! <<

but earlier on...

>> I knew my Billy. I watched what he eat, how much he slept, which friends he played with, and everything else, trying to be the best parent I could and trying to make sure he was safe and happy. <<

you must've done really well watching him then... he must be a magician to have slipped those books past your ever watchful eyes, oh great and charismatic one. Let me guess, he disabled your surveilance cameras, a trick he learned from reading Clancy novels.

btw, reread the statement above and your quote about "authoritarian"


damnit, learn the meanings of your words: (3.00 / 2) (#44)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 07:52:47 AM PST
"jyhad" is an arabic word that translates roughly to "struggle" in english. it is NOT a war, holy war, or any of the other misinterpertations put forth by the subtly anti-Islamic sects of the world.


And the traditional english spelling is (3.00 / 2) (#47)
by greyrat on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 08:23:49 AM PST
jihad


Jihad (none / 0) (#107)
by Anonymous Reader on Sat Aug 4th, 2001 at 03:49:26 PM PST
Actually the Abu Sayeff, an Islamic Terrorist organisation in the pacific, has declared that their actions are part of the Jihad. It is not just Cristian-centric views that confuse the meaning of this word.

But then again words are defined by their usage not their roots.


 
A voice of reason? (5.00 / 2) (#40)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 06:00:58 AM PST
Greetings. I am a 30-year-old roleplayer with a wife and two children..not that this qualifies me as a shining example of humanity. I belong to no organized religion and have many hobbies and interests.
I've noticed quite a few immature and scathing replies to this editorial that are doing the "cause" not one bit of good. So, here I am.
I am not a cultist...I have no interest in religion of any kind.
I am deeply sorry for the loss of your son and realize that you need to place the blame somewhere. Choosing to place the blame on a game was extreme and based upon biased/uninformed views. Yes, I see that you claim to have read the rulebooks. I see that you seem to have researched numerous facts to back your claims. You've also presented the facts in such a way that twists the truth.
Roleplayers went through this witch-hunt mentality in the 80s and we are due to endure it again from time-to-time. There was nothing to support the extremist claims then and there is even less now.
There are obsessive people in the world. Perhaps your son was one of them...I have no way of knowing.
Your broad defintitions apply equally to nearly any hobby or pursuit. We fear that which we don't understand and you definitely do not understand roleplaying as a hobby. Yes, hobby...not cult. Not religion.
Perhaps you should ask yourself what else was wrong in your child's life. You do not seem to have a definite answer for why he chose to kill himself. There is rarely a single reason for suicide. Feel free to live your life and to share your views. Those of us who enjoy the hobby know better and can only wonder at the mentallity that blames anyone's problems on a game, no matter how complex.
Your opinions are exactly that and do not create reality for anyone but yourself. I have a job in the real world. I have many interests that involve the real world. Dungeons and Dragons (along with other RPGs) is a game enjoyed by many people who do not give in to depression by committing suicide. Some players do get the wrong idea about how the games work and they should receive a little guidance from other players who simply enjoy the game for what it is.
Children (and adults) should be exposed to all the pursuits that life has to offer. They should be allowed to make educated decisions based on fact...not opinion.
I use the words GAME and PURSUIT intentionally and with emphasis for that is what we are discussing. Anything can be twisted and misunderstood, including religion. Religion should be kept in the home and in the church...and perhaps in the consenting community.

Be well.


RE: A voice of Reason (5.00 / 2) (#50)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 09:25:53 AM PST
Well said.

I am not here to bash a mother or her dead son, nor am I here to try and console her in her grief. That is not my place.

But I am here to ask one question: Beatrice, why is it that you feel you must scapegoat and persecute a group of people, most of whom are intelligent, thoughtful, and caring, without bothering to even question the word of your sources?

"I visited the library. I spoke to other parents. I telephoned the chaplain at my husband's military base. And I fired up my Internet. And I learned the awful truth: my Billy had fallen in with a cult."

The Library is a good start, but in my experience, you are unlikely to find any unbiased information about role-playing games at the library - as the above reader posted, when we went through a witch-hunt in the mid-80's, most libraries removed any pro-RPG material from their shelves, fearing the wrath of the general public. Censorship at its best.

Further, where did these 'other parents' get their information? Probably the same sources as you did - hearsay, urban legends, and chain letters.

And you spoke with a Military Chaplin? Did it occur to you to 1) question his opinion, 2) seek the opinion of a non-military pastor or priest, or 3) even WONDER if he was biased for some reason?

After all, if anyone on earth fits your definition of a cult it would be the military (...generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader). Extremist, unconventional lifestyles? Basic training, anyone? I need not even elaborate the obvious connection to an 'authoritarian, charismatic leader'. (SIR, YES SIR!)

As my final note on this topic, I can deduce that you have never spoken, at any length, with anyone who has ever played this game seriously. I have never, in 13 years, heard it referred to only as Dungeons. We either refer to it as D&D, or Dungeons and Dragons. A quibble, to be sure, but telling nonetheless.

Now, lest you dismiss my claims as the irrelevant postings of a hurt and deranged fan-boy, I will tell you a little about myself. I am 26, married to a school teacher (in a heterosexual, monogamous marriage); I graduated from the University of California, Santa Barbara with Honors, and am pursuing my Masters of Fine Arts. I have been playing Role-Playing games, including but not limited to Dungeons and Dragons for literally half my life.

Allow me to respond to your 'concerns'

Does your child spend excessive amounts of time with friends unsupervised indoors?

I tried, at the tender age of twelve and thirteen, to fit in with the normal, healthy, sports minded kids. I was painfully and frequently rejected; I am too smart, I was too weak and uncoordinated, I just wasn't cool enough. Then, something happened. The 'social outcasts', the 'geeks', saw my pain, saw that I could never fit in with the jocks, saw that they could shield me from that, and said, without any preamble, "why don't you hang out with us?" Just like that, I had friends, I had a place in the pecking order, and I was less likely to get beaten up by the 'normal kids' because I had a group. Yes, I was a geek, and that one moment relegated me for the rest of my life to one specific place in society. I cannot help but think, though, that they saved me from a lifetime of miserably trying to be something I am not. You will find, if you ask, that nearly every Role-Player in this world can relate to that story.

Does he question the rules and commands you lay down as a parent?

I should hope so. One of the main responsibilities we have as parents is to teach our children to think for themselves, to make their own decisions, and to judge right from wrong. Yes, the parent should of course have the last say. But to teach your children blind obedience is to teach them to be sheep, always following the herd.

Are his grades slipping of late?

Where did this come from? Most Role Players I have ever encountered are among the smartest, most creative and driven students in school. Look closely among the computer classes, the science classes, the math classes, and you will find that a good portion of the top students play RPG's. Certainly, my group in junior high and high school were amongst the best and brightest, and we are now, nearly to a person, very successful and very happy.

I would also encourage you to look within the military itself. A big portion of our soldiers play or has played role-playing games as a hobby. In my current group, two out of the eight players are ex-military, USMC and USN, to be specific, and I know of quite a few more.

Finally, if you are open enough to examine the other side, I would encourage you to look at this website:

It is an eloquent, thoughtful argument for the benefits of Role Playing, by a Christian writer.

Beatrice, I am sorry you lost your son. I hope you find out the true reason he killed himself, because I sincerely doubt that Dungeons and Dragons had anything to do with it. Don't be blind in your grief, and don't presume to judge us. That isn't your job, it's God's.

Jericho


 
This ker-azy DnD thing. (none / 0) (#134)
by Anonymous Reader on Sun Feb 10th, 2002 at 11:53:21 AM PST
Look. Ok, I'm sorry your son died, but to be blunt, he probably stood on the rulebooks for their slideyness and thickness. My friend goes to a fully Catholic school, and they have started a club for Dungeons and Dragons. They have also started Warhammer and WH40K clubs. All of these games could be misconstrued to be satanic.

Later.


 
Stop it! (5.00 / 4) (#42)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 06:57:13 AM PST
All you posters defending D&D must stop now! How dare you attempt to use logic and rational thought to make your position. Don't you realize that D&D must be demonized at all costs? There are thousands of housewives who will have nothing to do if you can prove that it is only a game and is not some sinister death cult. Won't someone please think of the housewives?


housewives (5.00 / 1) (#54)
by bhc on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 10:22:18 AM PST
they're made of people, PEOPLE!


Um, noone eats housewives... (none / 0) (#71)
by suick on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 07:45:26 PM PST


c'mon, lower.

 
D&D games and suicide (5.00 / 3) (#49)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 08:45:00 AM PST
I have allowed my sons to play D&D for the last four years. I have observed them in their playing. When they play they are laughing and joking around. They develop a strategy to accomplish goals and they all work together. They enjoy getting together and playing what I deem as a harmless game. Believe me I would not let them play this game if I thought there anything negative about it. I am deeply sorry for the loss of your son. Suicide is so hard to see coming. When it happens ones try to find a reason for it. We don't want to blame ourselves for not seeing it coming so we try to find another reason for it happening. I want to stress it is not your fault nor the game. It is probably many things, school, peer pressure, poor self-esteem, a feeling of helplessness--all these things are what causes one to take one's life. Games and tv probably don't help as they don't take that negative feeling away unfortunately. When you see your child sad and unhappy you think it just part of the teen-age phase. A mistake many of us make. One needs to keep the lines of communication open with your teens. LISTEN TO THEM and talk with them (not at them). Share your thoughts and feelings. Let them do this also. It may make a big difference. Give them space but let them know you are there. Hopefully, they will come to you. If you see it as a more serious problem get help now. Just don't assume it will pass sometimes it doesn't. I hope that you find peace. My heart goes out to you. Find a way to honor your son memory. Don't try to find a "blame".


 
jeezus peanut butter cups, people! (5.00 / 3) (#51)
by hyacinth on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 09:42:12 AM PST
An ill-informed article about D&D collects dozens of angry comments? Really...

D&D is so passe...there are much better ways to enter the dark realm of devil worship, debauchery, and disregard for human life:

Vampire, the Masquerade

Killer

Call of Cthulhu

All Flesh Must Be Eaten

--Hyacinth
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.

good god! (none / 0) (#65)
by shren on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 03:56:06 PM PST
I can't believe you forgot Kult. It's *the* sick and twisted game, taking some of the reality bending themes and throwing in bits of other crap. Very dark.


 
Vampire's Masquerade (5.00 / 1) (#127)
by nx01 on Mon Aug 27th, 2001 at 02:24:54 PM PST
I have some friends who used to be good Christians.

They now dress in black and wear fangs and go around in capes and decide important things by playing rock paper scissors.

The only change is that they started playing Vampire's Masquerade. It's made them... dark.


"Every time I look at the X window system, it's so fucking stupid; and part of me feels responsible for the worst parts of it."
-- James Gosling

 
dungeons and dragons (none / 0) (#55)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Aug 2nd, 2001 at 10:43:59 AM PST
oh my god, i must be satanic!!

i play D&D!!!

did i forget to mention that both i and my younger brother are a-b students who are also very active socially, play several sports each and are quite untroubled?

some underinformed persons might assume that i'm lying, but i personally have over 100 d+d books, and i feel quite uncorrupted.


so what (5.00 / 1) (#56)
by