Something Patriotic that The Geeks Can Do Right Now

I sit here on a piece of shit computer because I can't afford anything else, and because of the crappiness of my hardware and software (I write this on an ancient 486 wearing an ancient version of America Online) I can't enjoy the world of pirated multimedia like many of you can.

But I have.

In countless free hours spent in the hermetically sealed geek-caves of my alma mater, I enjoyed burned DVDs of Hollywood movies, anime and independent films, and live campus radio mixes composed of pirated music.

My band even made music with stolen copies of advanced production software. We took over the campus studio and installed a computer, which eclipsed the mixer as the focal point of the room.

It fucking rocked.

Unfortunately, that blossom of creativity, copied millions of times over around the world, has played a vital role in the downturn of the world's technology industry.

Anybody who makes software must do so knowing that many of the most lucrative class of users, the members of the computer culture itself, will pirate that software. Many of the best types software are restricted by subscription and lease. The actual software in these cases is hidden from the public and deeply regulated. Microsoft's .NET system, a platform where any licensed corporation can develop and deploy such "limited software," has flourished among industry due to fears provoked by a sustained hack attack.

For years, popular media felt that little could be done to change this trend in computer culture. Creativity in the computer industry, once the domain of conservative defense and university technicians, was gradually taken over by militant libertarians who simultaneously praise the power of computers while opposing any conceivable interest that the public might have in regulating their use. In the light of recent events, I am confident that many more people can now see how untenable and absurd that position is.

Unfortunately for artists (including me), a change in this culture of piracy is a big part of what's needed to get the economy back on track. Consider some of the statistics on piracy loss. More importantly, consider that piracy is an added risk factor for every software company on earth.

Remember, also, that the federal government will be imposing added security burdens on most industries now. Although businesses have worked for years to increase security at all levels of hardware and software design, the federal government will now be imposing added security (and financial) burdens on most computer businesses.

I believe that, when it comes down to it, most pirates and hackers want to be a part of American society. Many donated money on the Web to aid relief efforts. But they, more than anyone else, must understand how vital the software industry is to the national economy!

With this in mind, I would like to add my voice to that of the Federal Government in calling for a resurgence of patriotic behavior among the 1337.

Enamored with security holes? Quit damaging the economy by forcing downtime on hapless corporate machines. Let corporations spend their $100/hr technicians' time on defending themselves from terrorists, not from your lame ass. Go find Al-Qaeda's security holes, as a few brave souls have already done.

And, go out there and buy that CD, computer program, or movie. Consider it giving your own fair share to the rest of America.

America's investors, who have believed in you in the last 15 years, have made you great!

With this in mind, I'd like to propose a "Keep America Clicking" campaign.

In the spirit of Keep America Rolling, software and hardware companies should deeply discount prices and financing for technology.

Pirates would actually benefit from such a program; the discounted software, plus the added value of living a more risk-free lifestyle without piracy, would more than balance the benefits of free software and media.

I propose that anyone who is interested in becoming a non-pirating patriot post below. Perhaps we can network with each other and spread the word!

	Count Me In (5.00 / 2) (#2)
	by FifthVandal on Mon Oct 8th, 2001 at 12:02:41 PM PST

	And another good reason not to pirate: What do you think impresses the babes more - a stack of crappy CDRs with handwriting on the front, or a nice shelf full of shiny original boxes of real software, DVDs etc? And having an original copy of Windows ME is worth it for the shiny holographic CD alone! --- I was the fifth vandal on the grassy knoll!

	No, babes love leetness!! (3.00 / 2) (#32)
	by egg troll on Tue Oct 9th, 2001 at 10:36:55 AM PST

	I can't count how many times I've had some hot chick over at my place and I'm not getting anywhere with her. I hear all the bullshit excuses: "Lets just be friends", "I've already got a boyfriend", "I'm only 13!" However, when I show her my piles of juar3z, its like Egg Troll's Patented Panty Peeler. When I tell her about my FTP dumps, my IRC bots and my Hotline servers, her toes just start to curl and then I'm in like Flynn baby. Women appreciate a man who can provide for them, and having a ton of warez shows that you can, indeed, provide. I've also found that a disgustingly large amount of porn works well for similar reasons, plus it shows your virality. Posting for the love of the baby Jesus....

	Oh dear... (5.00 / 1) (#44)
	by FifthVandal on Tue Oct 9th, 2001 at 02:16:07 PM PST

	I guess you haven't heard about the BSA using undercover female operatives to trap pirates then... Hope you like bread and water. --- I was the fifth vandal on the grassy knoll!

	I have indeed! (5.00 / 1) (#48)
	by egg troll on Tue Oct 9th, 2001 at 03:06:36 PM PST

	Yes I have heard of them. Of course I'm such a smooth playah that none of them can resist me. It works out in a Jennifer Lopez - George Clooney - Out of Sight kinda way. Posting for the love of the baby Jesus....

	WinME (none / 0) (#38)
	by Husaria on Tue Oct 9th, 2001 at 12:07:12 PM PST

	You've got problems.. first: if you think a cd of WinME would impress a girl, you're on crack, because winME is a inferior operating syste. Win2k is a sure bet. Not some bloated OS that crashes every hour. Sig sigger

	In addition: (5.00 / 1) (#3)
	by Hunter on Mon Oct 8th, 2001 at 12:17:42 PM PST

	I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment expressed in this article. It is incumbent upon each and every American to his or her part in keeping our country strong, in both the military and economic sense. Piracy robs legitimate corporations of their profits, no one can argue that. While it may be distasteful for many in the Open Source/Piracy crowd, they must put aside their fanatical belief that they are entitled to all sorts of free entertainment and such. They must stand beside normal Americans in checkout lines across the country and hand over their (possibly ill earned) dollars to grease the wheels of the economy. Thankfully there are many organizations out there that are reaching out to support them. Though important, ending their addiciton to piracy is not the only step we must force them to take. It will also be necessary for them to begin paying for any software they choose to use. While Free As In Speech is a great feel-good mantra, it does nothing to stimulate the economy. Be it a tax on internet downloads or a simple ban on all of this Free software, we must arrive at a way to extract some sort of economic benefit from these transactions. Personally, I support the latter solution as it will free countless hours of programmers' time that would be otherwise be wasted in futile attempts to get their software to work properly! These hours could well be used to actually accomplish something of merit.

	Yes.... (none / 0) (#75)
	by Anonymous Reader on Fri Oct 12th, 2001 at 09:52:43 AM PST

	...All must work for the good of the collective. State your designation, 5 of 12!

	computers were not created to boost the economy (none / 0) (#79)
	by dotKAMbot on Sun Oct 14th, 2001 at 01:38:38 PM PST

	"Piracy robs legitimate corporations of their profits, no one can argue that." I'll argue that. Like I said above, pirates would not pay $400 for a piece of software if piracy wasn't an option. Everyone seems to think that every piece of software that is pirated would normally be paid for if that was the only way to obtain it. For all we know, if there was no piracy, less software would sell... It may whet people's appetite for the software causing more people to buy. You can't tell me for sure what really happens... all these numbers that corps report due to piracy are very bloated. Putting the open source community and the pirates into one group is ridiculous. One (the open source community) is a hard working group of individuals that sacrifices their free time for the good of the community without any pay. The other is nothing more than a group of criminals that put no work into what they do and help nobody but other pirates often making money from their practices. "While Free As In Speech is a great feel-good mantra, it does nothing to stimulate the economy." so? does everything I do have to stimulate the economy or be outlawed? That is dumb. Just because the economy doesn't appear to be boosted by open and free software doesn't mean we should get rid of it. I don't think anyone posting on this board is boosting the economy with their posts. I think we should instead force anyone on here that wants to post a message to instead write a book and sell it. Then maybe all these hours could well be used to actually accomplish something of merit. If you would like a good argument for free and open software please consult the GNU Philosophy. My software works properly maybe you don't work properly. What does society need? It needs information that is truly available to its citizens---for example, programs that people can read, fix, adapt, and improve, not just operate. But what software owners typically deliver is a black box that we can't study or change. Society also needs freedom. When a program has an owner, the users lose freedom to control part of their own lives. And above all society needs to encourage the spirit of voluntary cooperation in its citizens. When software owners tell us that helping our neighbors in a natural way is ``piracy'', they pollute our society's civic spirit. This is why we say that free software is a matter of freedom, not price. daniel j. wharton s.e.c.r.e.t.m.e.d.i.a.g.r.o.u.p www.secretmedia.org It's progress until there is nothing left to gain.

	Dangerously mistaken assumptions (5.00 / 2) (#4)
	by moriveth on Mon Oct 8th, 2001 at 12:41:30 PM PST

	I strongly agree that patriots should only buy American cars. While they may be inferior works of engineering (due largely to the abandonment of our auto industry by our own citizens), the auto industry provides real jobs for real Americans. To buy a foreign car is to say, "I don't care if jobs leave America. I care more about having my shiny new Honda." By contrast, software is primarily written by foreigners in our great nation on H1-B visas, stealing valuable jobs from qualified but less pliable American coders. Purchasing American software in this day and age is saying, "I don't care if you only employ fresh-of-the-boat Indians instead of hard-working American programmers you would have to pay fair wages. I'll still buy your software." Additionally, all these foreigners are a huge security risk; remember that some of the terroists in the 9/11 attacks had Electrical Engineering degrees. Eventually, of course, the boycott of American software will force software companies to lay off the foreign programmers and hire our recent college graduates. In the meantime, however, I recommend buying American manufactured products, but pirating your software.

	American cars (5.00 / 1) (#9)
	by Anonymous Reader on Mon Oct 8th, 2001 at 04:24:56 PM PST

	But sir, most American-branded cars are built outside of the US, and most foreign-branded cars are built right here, by American Union Workers, no less!

	Oh really? (none / 0) (#35)
	by hauntedattics on Tue Oct 9th, 2001 at 11:33:22 AM PST

	So to buy a foreign car is to say you don't care enough about America, eh? I doubt that all the workers at Honda in Marysville, OH would agree with you. Or the BMW workers in South Carolina, or the Toyota workers in Indiana... Shall I continue? And sometimes, buying an American car says, "Look at my Japanese engine on top of an American design!" While we're at it, let's stop buying all those American flags that are being cranked out from factories in China. 'Cause it's pretty damn' un-American to wave the flag... Trying to roll the clock back on globalization is not going to be more patriotic, hurt the terrorist networks, or help American workers.

	Dumbass. (5.00 / 2) (#5)
	by tkatchev on Mon Oct 8th, 2001 at 12:51:24 PM PST

	I'm in Russia right now, and we have laws that protect software pirates. (Well, pretty much.) That means that for all intents and purposes it is legal to pirate software. It may surprise you, but this only had a positive effect on the economy. Basically, it made computers and software a cheap commodity item -- I mean, here they sell software on every street corner along with hot dogs and flowers. This means that software companies (i.e. programmers) have an easy and almost immediate distribution market. No need to advertise, since anybody can buy your crap on any street corner. The downside is, obviously, the competition -- without monopolistic "shelving" practices your product has to compete on quality alone. Another benefit is a market of cheap and abundant hardware. My European aqcuaintances ask me to buy hardware here and fly it to them by airplane because hardware here is much cheaper, and certain things you just can't buy in Europe. The moral -- Americans, welcome to 1984. "Back to the future", indeed. Oh, well -- this is just the "NIH" (Not Invented Here) syndrome showing its ugly head. We already had totalitarinism, and it sucks; you seem stubbornly intent on falling into old traps. -- Peace and much love...

	Pure Soviet BS (5.00 / 1) (#7)
	by MessiahWWKD on Mon Oct 8th, 2001 at 03:11:02 PM PST

	Yeah, and Russia is ran by the Mafia too. I guess we should let the Mafia rule the world now 'cause according to this guy, Russia never made stupid ass mistakes. Guardian angel, heavenly friend, walk with me 'til the journey's end.

	What? (none / 0) (#18)
	by tkatchev on Mon Oct 8th, 2001 at 09:45:25 PM PST

	All I'm saying is that you're now making the exact same mistakes we did. Stop trying to control the software market using totalitarian methods, and let capitalism work its magic. I mean, if the big software houses can't compete with kids in a basement burning CD-R's, then they shouldn't have a reason for existing in a capitalist society. Grow up, communism has been shown to be a fialure. Even the Chinese understand this now. -- Peace and much love...

	because you can't count (5.00 / 1) (#28)
	by Anonymous Reader on Tue Oct 9th, 2001 at 08:42:16 AM PST

	I used to work on H1B visa in the states, and am now very happy to be back home. The USA hires foreigners on H1B visas because the education system is too crappy to provide enough home grown competence. Instead you have to import it from socialist countries like India which can somehow afford to turn out 100000s of decent engineers while the US has trouble educating enough people to a level where they're qualified to count ballot papers. The situation is perfect for rich shareholders who have huge profits and low taxes (don't waste anything on education) while still able to hire enough people to keep the wheels turning. This leaves the average American living as trailer trash, but who gives a fuck about that. Foreigners should stay out of US from their own sense of patriotism, but since their own countries have been milked of resources by the west they have an economic incentive to work in USA.

	Not "totalitarianism" but "rule of (none / 0) (#47)
	by Anonymous Reader on Tue Oct 9th, 2001 at 02:59:04 PM PST

	Dude, the mistakes we're making don't begin to approach the idiocy achieved on a routine basis by your former and current governments. It's not a mistake to have laws that inform the function of capitalism. We don't explicitly or tacitly protect software pirates, and we don't condone hiring some piss-poor displaced factory worker to kidnap or off a competitive rival for $20 in hard currency. One just happens to be a little harder to police for the time being. Don't worry, though, I'm sure it's all about to change. Soon, we won't be able to install a copy of MS Office on a desktop and a laptop without paying for it twice. Hopefully the fantastic brain trust that gave us Stalinism will find some way to crack the protection scheme and restore freedom to the criminal world once more. Never take lessons in economic policy from a geek who hails from a country that took Engels and Marx seriously.

	Huh? (none / 0) (#56)
	by tkatchev on Tue Oct 9th, 2001 at 09:46:29 PM PST

	Are you going to tell me that economists in the U.S. do not take Marx seriously? Somehow I have a feeling you know even less about economics than I do. Marx was a tremendous influence on economic science, (key word here is "science") his moronic social and cultural theories aside. P.S. Unless you have something worthwhile to add to the discussion, please don't spew offensive rubbish here. Posts like that belong on slashdot. -- Peace and much love...

	'positive effect on the economy' (5.00 / 2) (#8)
	by elenchos on Mon Oct 8th, 2001 at 04:17:55 PM PST

	So in terms of the Russian economy, what does that mean? That hopefully by this time next year, "Who wants to eat a meal?" will not be the most popular gameshow on Russian TV? Sure, USians need to overcome our prejudice against ideas not invented by us, but shouldn't we concentrate on importing ideas from economies we would like to imitate? So let's copy say, the Germans or the Swedes, who get their friends to send them cheap hardware bought on Russian street corners (I like that idea) but stick with the idea of not allowing valuable IP to be stolen and sold by everybody with a modem. After all, Dmitry Skylab (or Mir, whatever) had to come to the US to find customers for his E-Book cracking tool. How much can a Russian afford to pay you for your software? I do, I do, I do --Bikini Kill

	You're missing a point. (5.00 / 3) (#17)
	by tkatchev on Mon Oct 8th, 2001 at 09:42:00 PM PST

	The point is that when you protect the pirates, software and hardware sales go up, not down. Look, this is just capitalism; the pirates are the real venture capitalists. They need to know the market intimately to make any money, and since the competition is so fierce, you need to be really good to keep afloat. For example, look at all the failing Linux ventures in the U.S. -- how come these guys whine that "you can't make money on Linux" because you you need Big Brother to protect your software lincense, when here the pirates when faced with the same situation (the crap they sell you can download for free anyways) manage the make big, big bucks? The answer is that totalitarianism just does not work. Any totalitarian economy is doomed for failure. That is the real lesson of the "dot-bomb" crash; trying to comptrol the software market with communist-style strongarm tactics is just plain stupid, especially since communism has been empirically shown to be a failure. -- Peace and much love...

	All sorts of thieves are capitalistic. (5.00 / 2) (#22)
	by elenchos on Mon Oct 8th, 2001 at 11:20:16 PM PST

	Just because they have to compete in a tough market with small margins to sell their stolen wares is not enough reason to consider software pirates paragons of anything good or useful. The problem with them is that they are eating someone else's lunch. They are a kind of parasite, like a tapeworm. The tapeworm can do quite well so long as it doesn't drain too much from its host, but that doesn't mean the host is better off with a tapeworm than without. And it also doesn't mean that the it is better to be a tapeworm than a host. The most you can say is that if you are stuck in a intestine, then sure, I guess all you are ever going to be is a tapeworm, and so make the best of it. But if the chance ever comes up to be something else (anything would be better than a tapeworm, in fact), or if you are the host, to rid yourselves of tapeworms, wouldn't you take it? I do, I do, I do --Bikini Kill

	You're wrong. (5.00 / 2) (#23)
	by tkatchev on Mon Oct 8th, 2001 at 11:42:47 PM PST

	Software pirates are not thieves. Here in Russia, there is no pirated domestic software. None. This is because you can buy a licensed, legal CD-ROM for less than you'd pay a pirate. Plus, the quality of the packaging will be much better. Large companies have smaller production costs and better quality control. In a normal, functioning economy (I emphasise normal here) pirates working out of their parent's garage simply cannot compete. The problem is that the U.S. government has effectively created a software "black market" with their communist (or state capitalist, same thing) tactics. P.S. Before you reply that software companies need 10000% price markups because software production is expensive -- that makes sense from a communist perspective, (from each according to his ability, to each according to his need) but this point of view has been completely disproven. The real world simply does not work that way; software companies survive only when they sell software in huge bulk quantities, with tiny markups. -- Peace and much love...

	I'm quite dismayed. (5.00 / 2) (#29)
	by elenchos on Tue Oct 9th, 2001 at 09:35:45 AM PST

	Clearly what began as a civil discussion (asided from your "dumbass" headline) has now devolved into a classic Internet "flame war." Once the epithets began flying, it was inevitable that the next step would be minor quibbles over terminology and grammar (communist/COMMUNIST/state capitali$t, Skylab/Mir, etc.). It makes me sad that it always comes to this. However, I will try to ignore the playpen behavior and try to stick to something substantive. It seems to me the heart of the issue is that you beleive that free markets work by magic, and that the magic is spoilt by any attempt to mitigate the more extreme effects of an unregulated market. One such effect is that without some protection for property, gangsters will take over and no those who actually produce new goods will become extinct. This is why we use the state to enforce some copyright protection. There is no principle that the magic aura of the free market will fade because there is a little legal protection for basic property rights. It isn't like turning on a TV during a seance and disrupting the ectoplasm of the spirits or whatever. Without law and order, in fact, no capitalism can exist. Furthermore, there is no ultimate principle of capitalism that says that margins must be small. Larger profit margins can lead to a more affluent society, and pull an economy out of the mire of thrid-world low-rent, low-wage undercapitalization. Rich people sell to each other at high margins. It works as long as you have decently protectionist trade policies. I do, I do, I do --Bikini Kill

	Jesus Christ, tell me I'm dreaming... (5.00 / 2) (#31)
	by tkatchev on Tue Oct 9th, 2001 at 10:02:39 AM PST

	Why am I explaining the basics of capitalism to an American?! Look, I'll go slowly, since I tend to ramble. The basic point of capitalism is that economic systems are supposed to be self-sustaining when there is no outside influence. That means that the system stabilises itself without government regulation. Unless you absolutely trust your government to manage all of the U.S. economy (not) it's better to let the market stabilise by yourself. Unless you know exactly what you're doing, chances are you're going to seriously screw up the economics. In fact, this is exactly what happened in the U.S. -- by employing communist regulations, the government has created an artificial black market for software. (No other country in the world has warez trading groups.) Remember back in the '80s when demand for toilet paper couldn't be met in the Soviet Union? The "developed" world used to laugh at the Soviets for waiting in lines just to buy toilet paper. Well, guess what? The rest of the world is now laughing at the U.S. and the insane measures taken to fight software piracy. You're also confused on the matter of "property". When a software pirate sells a copy of your software he isn't stealing anything from you. You still have your intellectual property, it didn't magically disappear all of a sudden. The only thing he is stealing from you is your marketshare. However, stealing marketshare is only a crime in a communist society. The former Soviet Union had a developed system for punishing those who "stole" marketshare. The Soviet government just took your logic and extended it to commodity goods. For example, why should some dirty hick sell peaches on a roadside -- he probably just picked them from a nearby tree without expending any effort, while professional farmers need to develop land and buy expensive equipment to get the same result. By your logic, we should round up all the people who sell stuff in streetside booths and put them in jail. The problem is, we already tried something like that in the Soviet Union. It didn't work; the Soviet Union simply ran out of food and toilet paper, while gigantic state-run corporations collapsed under their own weight and mismanagement. P.S. One small point: the U.S. is the only country that is undergoing a crisis in the computer industry. The U.S. is the only country that has unemployed programmers. Even in dirty third-world coutries like India and Pakistan programmers have no problem finding good-paying jobs. Just think about these facts for a moment; be a little more open-minded and don't be afraid to think outside of the official American AgitProp. -- Peace and much love...

	On self-regulating systems. (5.00 / 2) (#34)
	by elenchos on Tue Oct 9th, 2001 at 11:17:57 AM PST

	You have repeated again your belief that capitalilsm has a kind of magic to it that must not be disturbed, just with fancier terminology. There are lots of self-regulating systems, and it is true that they all will eventually stabilize at some level, generally. Your body temperature is an example of this. Your body tries to regulate its temperature and will stabilize somewhere without you needing to do anything about it. So if you are in a freezing environment, your body might just stabilize at a temperature that is at freezing. Thus you would be dead, and the fact that your body sank to this stable temperature naturally would be your consolation. Is it a crime to put on a coat when it's cold? If you did, your body would still attempt to find a stable temperature, but it would be a temperature which would be able to sustain life. So getting back to capitalism, you are correct in saying that the market will naturally move towards one level or another, and so is self-regulating. But where do you get the belief that it will always move towards a point that we find desireable? What is to stop it from stabilizing at an unhappy place? And what God-given principle forbids us from nudging the market into a different stable place? The USSR is one data point suggesting that you shouldn't try to control the direction of the market. But what about the dozens of healthy mixed economies around the world? Why not counter the one example of the USSR with all those other successful economies? Taken as a whole, we have many instances of wealthy countries with high standards of living that exercise some degree of market control. And what country would you hold up as an example of the success of laissez faire? Russia? That country is poor and unstable. Surely you must know of some other country that leaves the market completely alone. How are they doing? I do, I do, I do --Bikini Kill

	OK. (5.00 / 2) (#36)
	by tkatchev on Tue Oct 9th, 2001 at 11:40:09 AM PST

	So, basically this is what your argument boils down to: "Communism has failed in the Soviet Union, but that doesn't mean it is unworkable here in the U.S.; I believe the software industry should immplement some sort of communism to protect failing software companies." That's fine. I have no problem with communism -- it's just one of the many possible ways of managing the economy. Like you said, there is nothing intrinsically better in capitalism. Fine, but personally I don't believe in communism because I experienced it first-hand. I have a unique advantage of being able to compare the two systems first-hand. You also make the fallacy of confusing economic prosperity and political stability. Economically, Russia has advanced by leaps and bounds. (Just like any other nation with a truly capitalist economy). Politically, Russia has underwent a complete and utter collapse. Those two things are really orthogonal to each other. (Virtually everybody I know of is living much, much better since the fall of communism. Psychologically, though, it is very difficult because you're basically living in a nation without a government.) -- Peace and much love...

	Yes. (5.00 / 4) (#41)
	by elenchos on Tue Oct 9th, 2001 at 12:43:20 PM PST

	Just because a country is poor is no reason to think that it is unstable. It just seems that way when you see so many poor countries changing governments or having civil disorder all the time. It is probably just some kind of funny coincidence. I had no idea that by having copyright protection the US had become a communist country. I always thought it was fair to call our economy "mixed," becuase I figured we lacked sufficient conditions to be accurately described as communist. So is is just copyright alone that makes us communist, or is it other stuff to, like social security, or having publicly financed wastewater treatment? I have to say, I really like knowing that the sewage treatment plant is going to be there no matter what the local market conditions are. I guess I just have to start loving COMMUNISM... I do, I do, I do --Bikini Kill

	Copyright? (2.66 / 3) (#55)
	by tkatchev on Tue Oct 9th, 2001 at 09:41:20 PM PST

	Copyright infringement isn't really related to software piracy; copyright is a system designed for stopping plagiarism. As long as I label my pirated disks with all appropriate copyrights I'm not actually doing any copyright infringement. Who is the person selling the media really makes no difference as far as copyrights are concerned. P.S. "Communism" isn't a bad word or anything; in fact, for things like sewage treatment plants and such communism might be the only viable way to go. All I'm saying is that you should realise that the anti-piracy measures in the U.S. really amount to communism for a single given industry. -- Peace and much love...

	You seem to spend a lot of time defining words. (4.66 / 3) (#57)
	by elenchos on Tue Oct 9th, 2001 at 10:27:34 PM PST

	Does it matter to you if other people use those words too, and the way we use them is different than you? For example, "property" can be tangible and directly measurable, like some bricks, or it can be intangible, like some timely information, or the experience of being exposed to some information. The rest of the world got used to this idea a long time ago! Now you want to come along and reveal to all of us that when you copy and re-distribute my information, I haven't lost anything. I'm sorry, but we have chosen to define the word "property" differently than that. We think of many things as being kinds of property, not just solid, heavy objects that go "thud" when you drop them. You have other special words, like communism, piracy, copyright, or plagiarism that you have decided to give your own personal definitons to. Knock yourself out. Define cheese to be gold if you like. But realize that when you get exasperated with the rest of the human race because we appear stupid to you for failing to adhere to your special definitions, well, we just don't care. Get exasperated all you want. I do, I do, I do --Bikini Kill

	You're the confused one. (3.00 / 2) (#59)
	by tkatchev on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 04:36:54 AM PST

	Piracy does not infringe on your intellectual property. I specifically said that in an above post. Pirates don't distribute information, they distribute physical media. A typical pirate doesn't generate any intellectual product, he simply distributes other people's information. (Key word here is "distribute".) The pirate doesn't care what is on that CD-ROM he is selling; (or giving away) it could be blank or corrupted for all he cares. -- Peace and much love...

	Yes, you said that is what piracy is. (5.00 / 2) (#66)
	by elenchos on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 08:44:28 AM PST

	In your own private language. Good for you. The defintion of piracy (and more importantly, property) that everyone else is using is different. So yes, you are completely right, as long as your own special words are used. The problem is, you are the only one who uses your special words, and so the only one who thinks you are right. I do, I do, I do --Bikini Kill

	elen ur wrong (none / 0) (#82)
	by Anonymous Reader on Sat Dec 22nd, 2001 at 09:02:48 PM PST

	Why do u hate piracy so much anyway? open ur mind to different possibilities. I mean, the software you DONT have, causes the same loss as pirated that software. If u don't have WinME, then the industry dont gain profit. If u pirate WinME then the industry dont gain profit. So, by NOT buying the software, u are in fact in the same class as pirates. Now don't try belittle pirates, as you are the same as them. Everyone is, its just the stereotype in people's head that makes people think it is bad. - by me "Piracy robs legitimate corporations of their profits, no one can argue that." pirates would not pay $400 for a piece of software if piracy wasn't an option. Everyone seems to think that every piece of software that is pirated would normally be paid for if that was the only way to obtain it. For all we know, if there was no piracy, less software would sell... It may whet people's appetite for the software causing more people to buy. You can't tell me for sure what really happens... all these numbers that corps report due to piracy are very bloated. - from another post.

	reasons for the fall of communism (none / 0) (#69)
	by Anonymous Reader on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 10:15:30 AM PST

	The REAL reason why communism failed is that PEOPLE cannot except the stages you must go through. Now I in know way am a supporter of Communism but I am a historian, theologian, among many other things. The basic idea of communism: Overthrow of government by the people the PEOPLE establish a government abolish social classes diffuse government no government (everyone works for the good of the country) Pay close attention to the last line. I was watching a Star Trek Movie (the ones with Pickard, not Kirk) and the economy of Earth's future seems to be based on this idea.

	Missing ingredient for Star Trek society (none / 0) (#70)
	by Anonymous Reader on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 06:34:10 PM PST

	The Star Trek economy has the benefit of a practically limitless, safe, clean, zero-cost energy source that is available everywhere and easily useable by anyone.

	bulk (5.00 / 1) (#53)
	by poltroon on Tue Oct 9th, 2001 at 08:26:00 PM PST

	The real world simply does not work that way; software companies survive only when they sell software in huge bulk quantities, with tiny markups. Just want to interject, you seem to presume that all software has huge demand, like fast food or something. In the world I live in, a reasonably small development group can survive if they make a product for a specialized consumer, in which case distribution and advertising aren't very expensive anyway. Of course the price of such software will probably be higher than mass market software, but there's a demand. The overhead for large companies to compete in the same niche would be too much.