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 Why I want to be an American Citizen

 Author:  Topic:  Posted:
Apr 25, 2002
 Comments:
Ever since the terrorist attacks on America last September, Americans have been indulging in an incredible amount of self-flagellation. Everywhere you look, leftists are claiming that America has got its just deserts for years of oppression and meddling, whilst rightists are being hysterically suspicious of foreign cultures and nations, which, given America's multicultural makeup, is hardly better than being suspicious of America itself.
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This masochistic tendency is not unique to America. It is shared by most countries with Anglo-Saxon origins. Britain is famously self-deprecating, and Australians, Canadians and New Zealanders have their moments too. Self-flagellation, however, needs self-confidence, and the quality and quantity of the attacks on America by Americans show self-confidence that Imperial Rome could envy.

An example of this can be seen by perusing the bestseller lists. The #1 bestseller is Stupid White Men ... and Other Sorry Excuses for the State of the Nation by Michael Moore, the ESR of the left, in that he is a "fat, self-aggrandizing, intellectually lazy gasbag." This book is nothing but a huge, preposterous attack on America, and is in a long tradition of self critical idiocy churned out by American authors. Considering that many in Europe and around the world consider America to be complacent & arrogant, it should surprise outsiders to see that denigrating America in America is very popular. Everybody around the world is intimately acquainted with America's problems, whether it is the effects of slavery, racial unrest, or urban decay, precisely because America is so fond of being self critical and broadcasting these flaws to the world in its films, books, plays and art. America is derided for having a low culture, and yet that culture is uncannily sophisticated

Europeans who bash American culture, and sneer at Hollywood, pulp fiction and mass marketing would do well to remember that just because Europe has a strong cultural heritage, this does not make it the eternal beau ideal. America is the daughter of Europe, and as such it can count all of Europe's historical cultural achievements as its own. The big difference is that America has built on this, invented new Art forms and integrated this European heritage with it's inheritance from the rest of the world, too. The most sublimely Protean of nations, America has had to reinvent itself many times, in its journey from optimistic irrelevance to global leadership. Europe, meanwhile, has stagnated and sacrificed the ideals it invented. If we compare the Britain of the 19th century to the Britain of today, we can see that then Britain was a lot more "American" than it is now. It had a strong work ethic, it believed fervently in civil rights, freedom, liberalism and the economic laissez faire. Now, like most European nations, it has sunk to a form of state despotism.

Britain in the 19th century fervently believed it had a civilising purpose in the world. Other nations, like France in the late 18th century, & Russia in the early 20th, have also felt themselves "chosen ones," moved to spread their absolutely correct ideals across the globe. This can be dangerous, when you believe that the ideals of your nation are absolute; certainly, the long course towards the Prussian Wars, the Great War and WWII could be said to originate when German philosophers, thinkers and (in general) German culture were marginalised by the absolutist, revolutionary French with their universalist chants of Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité.

The big difference is that for these other nations, these idealistic moments of national zeal and mission were fortunately brief and don't run deep. America, though, is idealistic to it's core. It's very psyche is founded upon such idealism, and the tacit belief that the American conception of liberty, democracy and freedom is the only reasonable one, and should be universal to all Mankind. Unlike the warped, hypocritical ideals of revolutionary France and Imperial Brittannia, with America we have some hope that these ideals are indeed universal.

America is the only nation to be founded on certain inviolable principles. These principles - equality, liberty, government by consent, natural law, representation, the rule of law, separation of powers and limited government - aren't just another possible set of principles by which to govern a nation. They are much more - they are fundamentally right. Just think of the alternatives in each case - inequality, illiberalness, government by fiat, etc etc, and it is stunningly obvious that these ideals are supreme and better. We must wonder why anti-Americans are anti-American at all - what can their beef possibly be with these ideals? In Europe, one suspects, the problem is that these ideals are thought of well, but only partially implemented, if at all. This requires a kind of double-think, one must simultaneously uphold the rightness of such ideals whilst ignoring the flagrant flouting of them by one's own government.

More than this, Europeans like to think they are beyond principles. Certainly, you won't find any who openly disagree with the principles outlined above, but they just adore their pragmatism. They regard the welfare of the people as being above all ideals, which is all fine and dandy until one starts to wonder who is deciding what about the welfare of the people, on what basis. Consider if America were called upon by an elite of bankers and industrialists to give up the dollar and hand control over to some unaccountable foreign central bank. Imagine this being decided upon without any democratic input, nary a vote being cast, and then just DONE, no dollar, *poof*! An impossible scenario, you may think, but that is just what happened throughout much of continental Europe. In every policy area, European nations have a disgustingly patronising attitude to their unfortunate subjects, whether it is seat belt laws or anti-gun philistinism. Perhaps this is alien, unnatural to you, that nations supposedly part of the West have such backwards attitudes to democracy, but you have to consider that these countries are really just emergent democracies. Most of them have been democratic for about 50 years, if that, and even those that have some claim to being vaguely democratic for longer, such as Britain, have only historically paid lip service to democracy to fob off working class discontent.

Perhaps the worst thing of all is the coddled complacency of Europeans themselves. My British friends disgust me, not only do they swallow every government dictat with the wide eyed, guzzling acceptance of a Kings Cross prostitute, whether it is the notion that the government has a right to dock 20% of your earnings to cater for the health of others through the ghastly NHS or that they have a perfect duty to stick cameras up everywhere, filming you in what should be private moments, especially in Kings Cross, of course.

Poor Europe, sad and bedraggled, is being left behind by America, a nation that can truly be said to be the ultimate expression of the West. Every idea that is peculiar to the West has been expressed in its most extreme form in America, while Europe itself, progenitor of these ideas, has decayed into a pre-renaissance state.

To establish true democracy, Europe needs nothing short of a popular revolution. Sadly, the governments of that continent have long since perfected the trick of keeping populations soporific and compliant.

My only choice is to move to a land that had a revolution and did all this a long long time ago - America.


A little beef (none / 0) (#4)
by poltroon on Thu Apr 25th, 2002 at 08:44:34 PM PST
with your prime example of American self-loathing.
The #1 bestseller is Stupid White Men ... and Other Sorry Excuses for the State of the Nation by Michael Moore, the ESR of the left, in that he is a "fat, self-aggrandizing, intellectually lazy gasbag." This book is nothing but a huge, preposterous attack on America
The majority of America is comprised of people who are neither white, male, nor rich. So clearly, the book doesn't attack Americans in any general sense. It depends on how you define America, I guess. Is America its people or the club in Washington?


Nope (none / 0) (#7)
by bc on Fri Apr 26th, 2002 at 04:54:17 AM PST
It attacks America, all of America. It blames all of America's prblems on deep south white men.

He rants and raves about how America is "the Dumbest country on Earth" (without explaining how it is the technologically the most advanced with the largest economy despite, apparantly, being congenitally stupid), he blabs on about its wastefulness (despite Moore himself owning 2 SUVs), its obesity (Moore is not a thin man), and so on and so forth.

The entire thing is a fairly presposterous attack on America as a whole; the "stupid white men" in the title are only the poor saps being apportioned 100% blame for it all by Moore.


♥, bc.

Moore is a troll (none / 0) (#11)
by Icebox on Fri Apr 26th, 2002 at 07:16:37 AM PST
Really. If he ever posted at Adequacy I expect that he would immediately deleted by an editor.

As you point out, he fits nearly every one of the stereotypes that are the targets of his rants. That is the entertaining thing. The man is screaming at himself and a throng of half-witted, disaffected, young, white, middle class, Friends watching, suburbanite, hair gel using, Smirnoff Ice drinking, pseudo intellectual, environmentalist wanna be, liberal college kids are cheering him on.

That makes him a cheap huckster, but at least he is getting their money.


 
Welp, I don't agree. (none / 0) (#14)
by poltroon on Fri Apr 26th, 2002 at 08:55:09 AM PST
I don't see him targeting America as a whole. He's pointing out problems and assigning some blame. How does it follow that all of America is hopelessly stupid? He believes there are a hell of a lot of smart Americans who could turn the country into what he and they want it to be. They just need to realize they're not alone or powerless; that is the motivation for his book.

A fat man who wants to loose weight doesn't have to hate himself to the core.


 
Two points (none / 0) (#6)
by because it isnt on Fri Apr 26th, 2002 at 03:06:39 AM PST
unaccountable foreign central bank

Firstly, by this phrase you have revealed your disgusting small-minded nationalism (not to be confused with patriotism). A European central bank is not "foreign" unless it's located outside Europe. You are presumably talking about our local central bank, because it's in Europe, just like us. You had better get used to this if you want to be American. Nothing says "inbred" better than complaining about something in another state being "foreign".

filming you in what should be private moments, especially in Kings Cross, of course

Secondly, all the Kings Cross prostitutes are drag queens. The only thing you should be doing in Kings Cross is getting back on the train to your beloved Edinburgh, where the ladies of Leith not only much cheaper, but they are 100% guaranteed female.
adequacy.org -- because it isn't

You're out of touch (none / 0) (#28)
by zeebillbi on Sun Apr 28th, 2002 at 07:10:31 AM PST
The prostitutes have been thrown out of Leith. They were relocated to Edinburgh's Cockburn Street (yep, seriously, that is the street's name, pronounced 'Ko-burn') by the police.


 
I have a slightly different take on this- (none / 0) (#8)
by JoePain on Fri Apr 26th, 2002 at 06:09:29 AM PST
You brought up two points which I think are related:

1. America is self self-flagellation?
2. Euopeans have a low opinion of America and Americans and like to point out our flaws.

I will try to explain without sounding too elitist and not at all self-flagellating. The reason Americans pick on America is because we would really like to verbally pick on a country who is bigger and stronger than use, but there aren't any. This leaves only ourselves.

My second point is explained by my first point if you subsitute european for American and remove the part about there not being a country bigger and stronger than us. (Obviously that would be a contradiction)


hah (none / 0) (#30)
by Stretch on Sun Apr 28th, 2002 at 04:53:16 PM PST
EU people only point out our "problems" because they wish they were in the position to *have* our problems.

Fuck, that is why the EU was formed. They think they can do better than us. I say good luck to them but our Articles of Confederation failed for a reason and so will theirs.


 
America bypasses its own rules (none / 0) (#9)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Apr 26th, 2002 at 06:13:35 AM PST
"These principles - equality, liberty, government by consent, natural law, representation, the rule of law, separation of powers and limited government"

Equality
Take a look at poverty in this country, take a walk around the streets of manhattan, maybe this system doesn't work?

Liberty
ya think? see Patriot Act 2001

government by consent
read Greg Palast's "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy"

Natural Law
Like Physics? Evolution? wtf is a "natural law"?

Representation
well under half of Americans bother to vote - how is this representative? On the other hand, if America's actions are representative of the will of the populace, we would appear to be a nation of murderers....

Separation of Powers
again, Patriot Act; twinned with a silent, impotent Congress that has resulted in the gross imbalance of executive power.

Limited Government
Ok, I've concede this one; but when your senior administration is nothing more than a popularity contest, all W has to do is kick over some "evil" state in fall 2003 and ride the wave of nationalism all the way to 2008.


America is a nation that (as a nation) acts selfishly, arrogantly, hypocritically, and yet still holds some notion that it is "the best country in the world"

Not last time I checked.





If... (none / 0) (#10)
by hauntedattics on Fri Apr 26th, 2002 at 06:29:04 AM PST
you hate this country so much, then why are you still here? And if you're still here but dissatisfied with the way things are, why aren't you working to change the way things are?

Boy, people like you who just whine all the time and yet never do anything, or even offer a solution for others to act on, just make me sick. Sick and tired.

And by the way, if you're having trouble with the concept of natural law, reading and doing research is a good idea. Mill is a good start.




Isn't the first step... (none / 0) (#16)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Apr 26th, 2002 at 11:05:10 AM PST
to resolving problems recognizing the problem?

Some of the cases presented by the original poster remind me of the old joke where a guy goes to a doctor and says, "It hurts when I do this." And the doctor replies, "Then don't do that."

In some of these cases, the problem is that we're doing something stupid. Perhaps the solution is to stop doing that.

That means someone has to stand up and say, "Hey, this is retarded. Let's not do that anymore."

I posted this below, but I think it applies equally well here...

So, just because America has major fucking problems and I (or the original poster) decide to point them so we can perhaps correct them, I should just leave. Sure, America is still one of, if not the, best place to live, but that doesn't mean I should shove my head up my ass so I don't see the problems.

"United we stand..." does not mean everyone blindfolded and gagged in a big circle jerk.



 
You fool (none / 0) (#12)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Apr 26th, 2002 at 07:37:17 AM PST
Take a look at poverty in this country, take a walk around the streets of manhattan, maybe this system doesn't work?

Take a walk around Jaurez, Mexico, or the slums in Jamaica and you'll see what real poverty is. Some family that can't afford a big screen TV isn't poor. A guy that is sleeping on the street isn't either, relatively.

ya think? see Patriot Act 2001

The Patriot Act is a lot less invasive and restrictive than you'll find in most other countries. Don't get upset because you can't download enrcypted kiddie porn.

read Greg Palast's "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy"

Are you claiming that no other governments are influenced by monied interests? While you're in Juarez, hit a police officer up for some cocaine. He is probably working for the local cartel. Better yet, try selling some coke to someone on the streets of Juarez. When the cops find out you don't work for the local guy they'll take you to the station and beat you with a claw hammer. The guys making the laws are equally corrupt. It is that way everywhere.

Ok, I've concede this one; but when your senior administration is nothing more than a popularity contest...

You just claimed that America's elections aren't representative of the will of the populace, now you claim that elections are 'popularity contests'. You can't have it both ways. Maybe you'd rather our leaders took office by rolling into Washington with tanks, whoever wins the ensuing bombardment gets to run the show for a while?


dumbass (5.00 / 1) (#29)
by Stretch on Sun Apr 28th, 2002 at 04:49:34 PM PST
The Patriot Act is a lot less invasive and restrictive than you'll find in most other countries.

Let me be the first (and apparently only) person to send you a big FUCK YOU. How dare you compare my beloved country to hundreds of fundamentally inferior nations. You make it sound like behaving like a Tier 2 or worse country is a *good* thing. You're dead wrong. America is the best nation in the world because we usually (except when a Republican is in office) choose the road that opposite of the inferior states of the world.

I would argue we are the best country in the world because we let citizens have guns, because we support the death penalty, because we didn't have the military in the airports (at least pre-9/11), because we aren't a complete welfare state, because we are a capitalist society, because we have a Bill of Rights, etc.

Not because our (patriot act) laws are slightly less restrictive than say, China.


 
If you don't like the country. (none / 0) (#13)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Apr 26th, 2002 at 08:09:26 AM PST
I never understood why people didn't just move out? Seems simple enough. If you know of a better place, go there. Send us a postcard.


Erm... (none / 0) (#15)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Apr 26th, 2002 at 10:50:05 AM PST
So, just because America has major fucking problems and I (or the original poster) decide to point them so we can perhaps correct them, I should just leave. Sure, America is still one of, if not the, best place to live, but that doesn't mean I should shove my head up my ass so I don't see the problems.

"United we stand..." does not mean everyone blindfolded and gagged in a big circle jerk.


 
Duh! (none / 0) (#17)
by poltroon on Fri Apr 26th, 2002 at 01:11:49 PM PST
Could you be any more apathetic? America wasn't founded on the principle of joyfully submitting to whoever currently holds the power. So your sentiment shows that you clearly don't belong here.


Is that so? (none / 0) (#18)
by tkatchev on Fri Apr 26th, 2002 at 01:46:58 PM PST
In that case, what are we supposed to whine about in the periods of time between binge drinking and studing for midterms?


--
Peace and much love...




I'm missing something. (none / 0) (#21)
by poltroon on Fri Apr 26th, 2002 at 02:35:02 PM PST
What are you talking about? Midterms, drinking, and whining? I could see that maybe those are the components of your concept of a liberal, but what does that have to do with what I said?


 
Debunking the Troll (none / 0) (#19)
by MessiahWWKD on Fri Apr 26th, 2002 at 01:50:11 PM PST
Take a look at poverty in this country, take a walk around the streets of manhattan, maybe this system doesn't work?


People choose to be poor. With all the social services out there to help people in need, nobody has an excuse to lack money, unless they're lazy, which most liberals are.
ya think? see Patriot Act 2001


You do realize that absolute freedom would be anarchy, right?
read Greg Palast's "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy"


Like anybody will waste time and money reading a book by a self-proclaimed intellectual.
well under half of Americans bother to vote - how is this representative? On the other hand, if America's actions are representative of the will of the populace, we would appear to be a nation of murderers....


How does the majority of the populace being content with the decisions of those who vote take away from the fact that the will of the majority is being represented enough for them not to bother to vote?
again, Patriot Act; twinned with a silent, impotent Congress that has resulted in the gross imbalance of executive power.


Separation of powers doesn't mean that the branches don't work together sometimes.
Ok, I've concede this one; but when your senior administration is nothing more than a popularity contest, all W has to do is kick over some "evil" state in fall 2003 and ride the wave of nationalism all the way to 2008.


As another has already said, this contradicts your claim that America isn't representative of its people. By the way, what does Bush being re-elected have to do with limited government?
America is a nation that (as a nation) acts selfishly, arrogantly, hypocritically, and yet still holds some notion that it is "the best country in the world"


It is amusing how you refuse to back up your claims. As for America being selfish, if it were selfish and didn't give a rat's ass about the welfare of other nations, maybe 9/11 would have never happened. If we did that though, you Nazis would be whining about how America doesn't help anybody else.
Guardian angel, heavenly friend, walk with me 'til the journey's end.

 
Reply (none / 0) (#20)
by bc on Fri Apr 26th, 2002 at 01:57:39 PM PST
Equality
Take a look at poverty in this country, take a walk around the streets of manhattan, maybe this system doesn't work?


Huh, nobody is talking about material equality, here. We're talking political equality, the notion that all men are born equal under the law with the same rights and responsibilities.

Liberty
ya think? see Patriot Act 2001


An act designed to protect liberty in the face of terrorism. It is unclear how it is "illiberal," in any major sense. Certainly, it fucked with civil liberties to some degree, but that really doesn't imp impact on my point that the US is based around these ideals, nomatter how dodgy the implementation at any particular point in time. In any case, the Patriot Act is defensible as a measure designed to protect liberty. It is unclear what critics of the Patriot Act would have us do instead; nothing, presumably.

government by consent
read Greg Palast's "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy"


I see. A book complaining about corporate donations to Campaign funds. One might wonder, given the premise that America is not a democracy, why the political parties there spent $3 Billion on their campaigns at all; after all, people's votes don't matter, right? However, as we should all recognise, the last election in the US showed what a rigourous democracy was all about: every vote counted.

Natural Law
Like Physics? Evolution? wtf is a "natural law"?


Remedial link to help you out

Representation
well under half of Americans bother to vote - how is this representative?


Most sensible people agree that the real point is that they all can vote. If they don't want to, that's their business.

On the other hand, if America's actions are representative of the will of the populace, we would appear to be a nation of murderers....

Oh bollox. Who exactly is America murdering? The only war I can think of that wasn't fully supported by the USian people was Vietnam, and wait-just-a-goddamn-minute, it stopped partly because of the protests and ended up with the destruction of an administration.

Separation of Powers
again, Patriot Act; twinned with a silent, impotent Congress that has resulted in the gross imbalance of executive power.


I'll concede there are problems here.

However, my point is not so much that the US is a perfect implementation of a free society, but rather that it is (in a very fundamental way) based on the principles of a free society, making it a far superior place to live than Europe, which most definitely is not.

Not only do every single one of the arguments you just used apply to most European countries, but they do so much more powerfully because those countries are not based on the underlying ideals that make it possible for people to recognise such deficiencies in the first place.

America isn't just a place; it's an idea, a state of mind.


♥, bc.

 
Laughing hysterically (3.00 / 2) (#25)
by gohomeandshoveit on Sat Apr 27th, 2002 at 06:19:41 PM PST
After reading the replies to your comment, Mr. Anonymous Reader, I believe it is my duty to sum up their arguments into 3 words:

You got told.

Step One: Read my screen name.
Step Two: Act upon what you just read.
Step Three: Have a nice day.


 
The problems that are with America (none / 0) (#22)
by Anonymous Reader on Sat Apr 27th, 2002 at 04:45:57 AM PST
You Americans and Britishers are foolishness to think your USA will always be to dominate. America is too libral with foreigners, USA lets any numbr of foreign peoples enter throughout its borderline. Soon the whole of the country will be overrun with people who were born in lands not of native USA! Here is what will then be to happenning:

  • USA electoral system will be the gridlock because all immigrant blocs will special interest group and vote against each other for the welfare dollars, etc.
  • USA will be to lose its national identity because each immigrant ethnic group will agitating for their own language, culture, and so forth to be taught in the schools
  • Americans wage will drop because all the new immigrants will be to living three families to a house and work for minimum wages so taking away the job form USA original citizens.

    You can see now that soon America will be full of crack and the inhabitants of prisons. Here in France we have Jean-Marie Le Pen who knows to keep the immigrants people from taking over of France. The same will be true of all of Europe so soon Euros will be the best #1 currency to be of spending in the world and America will be a big slum. Europe will be he top world power soon so bc you should move to France. Plus the food here is much to the better. We cook with real butter not i cant beleive its margerine processed crap.


  • Right on! (none / 0) (#23)
    by tkatchev on Sat Apr 27th, 2002 at 06:34:03 AM PST
    ...about the margarine.

    I don't think that Europe will become a "world power" anytime soon, simply because for the most part, Europe is a colony of the U.S. (Witness the disgusting recent EU debacle in Switzerland.)

    So, in effect, when the U.S. goes down you'll go with them. Maybe you won't get hurt as much from the fall, but it will be painful in any case.


    --
    Peace and much love...




    tkatchev, you underestimate the EU. (none / 0) (#24)
    by dmg on Sat Apr 27th, 2002 at 05:41:03 PM PST
    The United Kingdom on its own is still a nuclear superpower. France has it's force de frappe, and there are surely other European nations with independent access to nuclear weapons. They may or may not have the capability to deliver them over long range, but nonetheless, the EU is not exactly unarmed, and when they finally elect fascist leaders in every country (which seems to be the masterplan) they will become the dominant force in the world.

    I predict we will soon enter a thousand-year period of glorious enlightened European domination in which you will be compelled to enjoy a luxurious democratic Socialist lifestyle, like it or not. I predict the EU will soon become the preferred destination for immigrants, above the USA, a stable authoritarian regime with a thin veneer of democracy seems to be just the thing that draws them in.

    time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration.
    -- MC Hawking

    Get a clue. (none / 0) (#27)
    by tkatchev on Sun Apr 28th, 2002 at 03:32:12 AM PST
    Actually, the E.U. already is the preferred immigrant destination -- and has been like that for several years already.

    This is patently obvious to anybody who has ever visited any European country.


    --
    Peace and much love...




     
    hmm... (none / 0) (#26)
    by gohomeandshoveit on Sat Apr 27th, 2002 at 06:48:40 PM PST
    OK, kiddos. I'm only gonna say this once. America is full of crack and prison inhabitants.
    That's nothing new. Illegal immigrants have been sneaking in forever, especially Mexicans. Our country isn't that badly screwed up now and white males are still the majority, so, until all the Mexicans pollute our culture until we get pissed and move to Mexico and become Mexicans while the illegal Mexicans become Americans, we're pretty much in the clear.

    And Mr. Anonymous Reader: Tell your French Fried Friends to go take a shower so they might get over themselves and see past their stench and smell the "I Can't Believe It's Not Butter!" coming from America. Get used to it; it ain't goin' nowhere for awhile, no matter how much you trash it.

    Step One: Read my screen name.
    Step Two: Act upon what you just read.
    Step Three: Have a nice day.


    Remember this one? (none / 0) (#52)
    by Big Dogs Cock on Wed May 1st, 2002 at 04:40:31 AM PST
    Why is there no Mexican Olympic team?

    Because anyone who can run, jump or swim is in the states.

    Thank you.



     
    Isn't that how our country was founded? (none / 0) (#31)
    by JoePain on Mon Apr 29th, 2002 at 06:06:29 AM PST
    Perhaps this is what you Europeons will never understand about us. Abandon your petty nationalism and quit seeing yourselves as a race seperate from everyone else. I suggest you re-read what is writtin on that little statue you gave us.


     
    wrong turn (none / 0) (#85)
    by Anonymous Reader on Tue May 7th, 2002 at 01:52:49 PM PST
    Bub , you made a wrong turn at albaque

    "USA electoral system will be the gridlock because all immigrant blocs will special interest group and vote against each other for the welfare dollars, etc.
    USA will be to lose its national identity because each immigrant ethnic group will agitating for their own language, culture, and so forth to be taught in the schools
    Americans wage will drop because all the new immigrants will be to living three families to a house and work for minimum wages so taking away the job form USA original citizens."

    You just described Canada

    Centaur




     
    Your missing one thing... (none / 0) (#32)
    by Anonymous Reader on Mon Apr 29th, 2002 at 07:01:21 AM PST
    Sure, america claims those qualities in its constituation - but that doesnt mean anything.

    America is a country where the political system is riddled with curroption, where the more you pay the more support you get.

    America has no respect for the environment, for other countries, for people (especially 'aliens') or for future generations.

    American's clear lack of care for the environment (latest example: The complete will to even discuss the Kyoto agreement) over the top of profits (will our industries be hurt? Yep, well then we don't care) will ultimatly lead to the destruction of the human race.
    In many other countries thousands of people unncessarily die and live in poor conditions - why? Well the Nike workers in sweat shops can't really afford medical care or clothes, the Taco Bell workers down in Mexico have to make do on the money they get which is enough to purchase maybe one meal a day.

    The supreme arogance of America still exists, and despite your rambling about how America is superiour (which it clearly is not) its still "wrong" even by your values. Equality? Millions of dollars in the moments of seconds went into support S11 victoms and so on - millions was spent in Afgahnastan destroy THEIR country, millions was pumped into defence - for the lives of how many? 3021. I'd like to make you aware that <b>34,000</b> kids die <b>daily</b> of hunger, disease and conflicts world wide - how much money does America spend helping these each <b>year?</b> several million, and thats mostly through donations. When you think about the population and wealth of America - that is DISGUISTING.

    Lastly, as I'm sure you are aware - America is NOT a free country. People can be locked up and jalied for speaking their mind (more so after S11), "free speech" no longer exists. When companies are able to PAY to have people <i>locked away</i> or police are allowed to indefinatly jail people on <i>their own grudge</i> - you should be scared.

    Sure, go on and keep dreaming about your delusional country that is America. I will continue to dream of and work towards a free world, without opressive governments, without environmental abuse, without inequality and WITH freedom.
    Goto America, the Land of the "free" - rid us of your presance. I'll have the last laugh.


    Question (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by hauntedattics on Mon Apr 29th, 2002 at 10:57:35 AM PST
    When you swallowed the anti-American/anti-globalization credo whole, did it hurt when the hook lodged in your stomach?




     
    Deletion Notice (none / 0) (#35)
    by RobotSlave on Mon Apr 29th, 2002 at 01:52:08 PM PST
    A comment by user "MessiahWWKD" has been deleted for gross copyright violation. The uncensored original content from the original post is quoted below:
    " We do much more for other countries and the environment than any other nation. As for aliens, unlike Europe, our xenophobic age is over!

    At least we're giving those people jobs unlike the Europeans who won't even bring work to other countries and if they do, I can assure you that they treat their employees much worse.

    What the fuck do you European bastards want? When we help other countries like when we helped free Afghanistan of the Taliban, you bitch at us for being "bullies," and when we leave other countries to themselves, you commie bastards bitch about us not doing anything to help. Meanwhile, you Europeans act as if you are completely flawless and do much more than America for the world, when it is clear that you don't and only care about Europe. Where was Europe when the Taliban was oppressing Afghanistan? Europe was creating the Fourth Reich while criticizing America because of its laws against child pornography on the Internet.

    You must be an idiot if you think that the freedom in America, including the freedom of speech, was ever meant to be absolute. As for companies paying to have people incarcerated, making wild claims like that is ludicrous and seeing as how you can't give one example of somebody being incarcerated because their company paid for them to be incarcerated, I take it you are merely another liberal idiot who knows nothing.

    I'm sure you'll enjoy the Fourth Reich.
    "


     


    © 2002, RobotSlave. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

    example: (none / 0) (#36)
    by Anonymous Reader on Mon Apr 29th, 2002 at 07:09:05 PM PST
    <blockquote><i>As for companies paying to have people incarcerated, making wild claims like that is ludicrous and seeing as how you can't give one example of somebody being incarcerated because their company paid for them to be incarcerated, I take it you are merely another liberal idiot who knows nothing.</i></blockquote>

    Sure, Dmitry Sklyarov, company: Adobe.


    How stupid (none / 0) (#39)
    by MessiahWWKD on Tue Apr 30th, 2002 at 01:52:00 PM PST
    1) Mr. Sklyarov was NEVER an employee of Adobe.
    2) Mr. Sklyarov made a program to crack the encryption of Adobe's product, which is against the law. I know you Linux folk don't understand the concept of intellectual property and believe everybody's property except yours should be public, but in the real world, it is clear to anybody with a brain that he broke the law.
    Guardian angel, heavenly friend, walk with me 'til the journey's end.

    Gentle reminder: (none / 0) (#41)
    by The Mad Scientist on Tue Apr 30th, 2002 at 03:29:34 PM PST
    Boston Tea Party was breaking the laws back then as well. Many more examples followed.

    Am I supposed to take seriously any comments about laws from members of nation founded by traitors and lawbreakers?


    There's a difference! (none / 0) (#43)
    by MessiahWWKD on Tue Apr 30th, 2002 at 04:14:18 PM PST
    The difference is that England was clearly being oppressive against the colonists. Dmitry simply wanted to sell software that would break the encryption of Adobe's software.
    Guardian angel, heavenly friend, walk with me 'til the journey's end.

    So now... (none / 0) (#86)
    by The Mad Scientist on Tue May 7th, 2002 at 02:20:34 PM PST
    ...the USA is clearly oppressive against technicians.

    Dare to talk about something the Fatcats don't want you to, and go to jail. They bought the laws, after all...


     
    Huh? (none / 0) (#37)
    by MessiahWWKD on Mon Apr 29th, 2002 at 08:04:33 PM PST
    What? I don't get it.
    Guardian angel, heavenly friend, walk with me 'til the journey's end.

    What seems to be the problem? (none / 0) (#38)
    by RobotSlave on Tue Apr 30th, 2002 at 03:02:23 AM PST
    Though we allow readers to post anonymously here at adequacy, that does not mean that we have no regard for Intellectual Property that is posted anonymously.

    Gross disregard for Copyright and Intellectual Property, such as that diplayed in your deleted post, will not be tolerated at adequacy.


    © 2002, RobotSlave. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

    N/T (none / 0) (#40)
    by MessiahWWKD on Tue Apr 30th, 2002 at 01:54:36 PM PST
    If you want me to leave Adequacy, just say so.
    Guardian angel, heavenly friend, walk with me 'til the journey's end.

    Not at all. (none / 0) (#42)
    by RobotSlave on Tue Apr 30th, 2002 at 03:30:06 PM PST
    Whether or not you leave is entirely your own decision, of course. We do not bar the gates of the Adequacy to anyone. There are some editors who think we ought to be much more selective, of course, but for now, the doors remain open.

    We do, however, require those who post here to abide by our strict no-trolling policy, to comply with our terms of service, and to refrain from flouting Intellectual Property Law during the ongoing War on Copyright Violation.

    If you feel that you must leave, due to unjust persecution, personal injury, or other grave offense on the part of the editors, we request that you post a diary entry detailing your grievance.

    If we are to be accused of wrongdoing, we would prefer to know what the charges are.


    © 2002, RobotSlave. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

    Well... (none / 0) (#44)
    by MessiahWWKD on Tue Apr 30th, 2002 at 04:15:29 PM PST
    I would like to know what I Napster'd, 'cause all that stuff you said I ripped was what I said.
    Guardian angel, heavenly friend, walk with me 'til the journey's end.

    Read more carefully, please. (none / 0) (#45)
    by RobotSlave on Tue Apr 30th, 2002 at 05:50:42 PM PST
    Your original content was reprinted, because we do not wish to silence controversial opinion.

    What was left out of the republished material was your illegal, disrespectful copying of Anonymous Reader's original work.


    © 2002, RobotSlave. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

    My Apologies (none / 0) (#47)
    by MessiahWWKD on Tue Apr 30th, 2002 at 06:08:25 PM PST
    I was not aware that the work of Anonymous Reader was not in the public domain. The compensation check is in the mail.
    Guardian angel, heavenly friend, walk with me 'til the journey's end.

     
    Freeing Women from Taliban Oppression (none / 0) (#81)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sun May 5th, 2002 at 10:39:52 AM PST
    I don't know how you guys can keep a straight face when trying to claim that the plight of women in Afghanistan was of the remotest concern to your government when making the decision to oust the Taliban through military action.

    Did they go into Kuwait to save the camels?



    sir, (none / 0) (#82)
    by nathan on Sun May 5th, 2002 at 12:19:14 PM PST
    Your scurrilous imputations against the noble Iraqi fighting man are unfounded and cruel.

    Nathan
    --
    Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

     
    American Liberals (none / 0) (#46)
    by Anonymous Reader on Tue Apr 30th, 2002 at 05:54:55 PM PST
    Since you hated America so much, please loosen up the immigration law. I'm sure millions of Russian, Indian, Chinese want to be an American citizen. Let them dwell in your hated America. You can give up your America citizenship and go back to Europe.


     
    Why go to America... (none / 0) (#53)
    by The Mad Scientist on Wed May 1st, 2002 at 09:26:14 AM PST
    ...when it will come to you?

    It doesn't mind where you are. Sooner or later, they will steamroll over you, force-feed you with Hollywood movies and junk food, and lower the reliability standards of your devices (except the special-grade high-expensive ones; ie, their space shuttles tend to be pretty good).

    I had a small grill bar where they were making the best fries from the whole city. Now it is in reconstruction and there is a big ugly red-and-yellow transparent about new McDonalds, complete with the stylized golden buttocks proudly aimed towards the sky. Which means I can tell my fries good bye, as the only remaining option will be the same-tasteless-everywhere McFries, optimized for mass production and tasting accordingly. Yes, I admit their "food" is edible, and good enough when there is no alternative. But not much more. If I could just ignore them and go elsewhere, it would be good enough with me. But they are killing off the elsewhere!!!

    Then someone comes and wonders why I have anti-American moods. Or is there anyone who likes such expansiveness?


    oh come on (none / 0) (#54)
    by nathan on Wed May 1st, 2002 at 11:09:57 AM PST
    It's not the evil Yanquis ruining your life. It's your fellow Czechs who think that a McD's is more profitable than a corner grill bar. And you appear to be unaware of the immense technical expertise of the McDonald's corporation. Do you have any idea how hard it is to make a meal taste the same no matter where on Earth the restaurant is located?

    Nathan
    --
    Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

    Deletion Notice (none / 0) (#58)
    by RobotSlave on Wed May 1st, 2002 at 03:40:38 PM PST
    A comment by user "The Mad Scientist" entitled "McDonaldization" has been deleted for violating copyright held by user "nathan." Original content from the deleted post is republished below:
    "Not exactly ruining. Rather impairing its quality.

    Greed. Pure greed with no consideration of other variables (maybe because the people not driven by greed were bankrupted and then bought out by the other ones?). If there wouldn't be enough of McD's here anyway. And their designers could have more taste as well, it all looks the same regardless of the surroundings. There is a McD station in one of local nicest landscapes, and it looks like an ugly red-and-yellow plastic wart. If it would get firebombed overnight, I wouldn't shed a tear. Black smoking ruins would be more visually appealing than the current eye-attracting but otherwise pretty repulsive version.

    Taste? If it can be called taste then I don't like it. Well... the fries can be called acceptable, but not much more. The burgers are tasteless, and the cola is overpriced. Maybe the procedure requires long extracting of all the naturally present taste and then replacing it with the same-everywhere immitation.

    I want slower society. I am more than willing to pay with lower GNP if I'd get less fastfoods and more tearooms, and people being able to have more time for each other.

    Sorry for being disgusted. I see things I liked being driven out by inferior versions, all in the name of almighty Profit. I am disillusioned.

    Check http://www.mcdonaldization.com/ - a website based on George Ritzer's excellent book, Mcdonaldization of Society. Czech version had much better picture on its front page - Charles Bridge, over which rides a burger with a barrel and caterpillars - a tank of the new occupants.



    © 2002, RobotSlave. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

    request (none / 0) (#61)
    by nathan on Wed May 1st, 2002 at 04:09:35 PM PST
    Could you repost replies to deleted comments in future, sir?

    Nathan
    --
    Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

    Of course. (none / 0) (#64)
    by RobotSlave on Wed May 1st, 2002 at 04:17:37 PM PST
    There is a certain amount of overhead involved in excising stolen work and formatting for republication. Responses may disappear briefly during this process.

    Your comment has been restored, of course, but the ad-hoc Committee to Design the War Department has not had time to put a permanent fix in for minor details like comment alignment. Things may look a little bit off.

    We thank you for your forbearance during these troubling times.


    © 2002, RobotSlave. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

     
    Oh great. (none / 0) (#63)
    by The Mad Scientist on Wed May 1st, 2002 at 04:14:46 PM PST
    So the points that I was reacting to were lost, and now it is on the readers to backtrace from parent, and guess. Unnecessary added hassle, all in the name of RobotSlave's petty little New War.

    I always thought quoting is here for not having to remember the verbatim text of the parent post when reading the thread. It is acceptable to have to remember when you read the thread linearly. It is entirely unacceptable to request that from the readers when some of the reading modes are asynchronous, when the reader (because of awfully slow site) tends to open several comments in several windows and switch between them. Keeping the orientation who talks about what without quoted posts is a nightmare.

    RobotSlave, a points for you for making the world suck a little bit more. Please take your self-appointed policing and go to where you belong.


    counterpoint (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by nathan on Wed May 1st, 2002 at 04:39:41 PM PST
    If the parent post makes its argument clearly, your in-context, coherent response can refute the argument itself rather than quotes from it. This makes it more difficult to score easy points on usage, or to divert an argument into trivia when you begin to lose. I expect to experience a good deal of misery and humiliation under the new regime.

    Nathan
    --
    Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

    I like. (none / 0) (#69)
    by because it isnt on Thu May 2nd, 2002 at 03:57:09 AM PST
    Witty, insightful, yet self-deprecating at the same time. Are you sure you're not Woody Allen?
    adequacy.org -- because it isn't

    Woody? (none / 0) (#72)
    by RobotSlave on Thu May 2nd, 2002 at 10:56:47 AM PST
    If he were Woody Allen, he wouldn't be having trouble attracting the ladies.


    © 2002, RobotSlave. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

    Woody doesn't attract ladies. (none / 0) (#73)
    by because it isnt on Thu May 2nd, 2002 at 02:05:46 PM PST
    Usually it's schoolchildren, as I read in the tabloids.
    adequacy.org -- because it isn't

    You've misread me. (none / 0) (#75)
    by RobotSlave on Thu May 2nd, 2002 at 03:28:38 PM PST
    I'll grant that it seems from the celebrity gossip sheets that schoolchildren are what Mr. Allen is attracted to, he is nonetheless attractive to the ladies. For more insight into this, put down the tabloids and spend some time chatting with strangers in your local clean, healthy tavern.


    © 2002, RobotSlave. You may not reproduce this material, in whole or in part, without written permission of the owner.

    It's true (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by bc on Sun May 5th, 2002 at 07:57:39 AM PST
    A small, bespectacled man can do little better than take a girl to a Woody Allan film. For the brief couple of hours after the film, he is transformed from hopeless geeky type, to being neurotic, insufferable, weird and yet strangely attractive in her eyes.


    ♥, bc.

    A Woody Allen story (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by hauntedattics on Mon May 6th, 2002 at 07:14:45 AM PST
    A few years ago, my husband and I went to see the movie Antz in a local movie theater. A row or two ahead of us sat several older teenagers, who behaved themselves remarkably well during the movie.

    Until the end, when Woody Allen (who voices the main ant character) went off on one of his trademark neurotic ramblings for several minutes. There was a bit of polite laughter in the theater, but it was otherwise quiet. Except for one of the teenage girls, who, at the end of her rope, finally yelled,

    "God. Shut up!"

    Everyone burst out laughing and applauded. The movie ended, and everyone went home, happily entertained.




     
    I'm really more of a (none / 0) (#74)
    by nathan on Thu May 2nd, 2002 at 03:14:53 PM PST
    Woody Herman.

    Nathan
    --
    Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

    As the old joke goes: (none / 0) (#76)
    by because it isnt on Fri May 3rd, 2002 at 05:29:08 AM PST
    Rather Woody Herman than Paul Reubens's raging hardon.
    adequacy.org -- because it isn't

    how odd. (none / 0) (#79)
    by nathan on Fri May 3rd, 2002 at 01:32:01 PM PST
    I am unfamiliar with that joke.

    Nathan
    --
    Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

    Clarification. (none / 0) (#88)
    by because it isnt on Wed May 8th, 2002 at 03:57:39 AM PST
    Furthermore, wangs.
    adequacy.org -- because it isn't

     
    You knew this was coming, didn't you? (none / 0) (#60)
    by hauntedattics on Wed May 1st, 2002 at 03:54:59 PM PST
    So people can disregard traffic laws whenever they want to, but insult you or build a new McDonald's and suddenly there's hell to pay?

    My, my.



     
    Anti-American People Need to Grow Up (none / 0) (#62)
    by MessiahWWKD on Wed May 1st, 2002 at 04:14:06 PM PST
    What is with you people hating McDonald's simply because other people prefer it over your piece of shit little grill? It's not like McDonald's forced people to buy food from them and stop buying food from your grill. I wish you'd stop hating people simply because they're more successful than you are.
    Guardian angel, heavenly friend, walk with me 'til the journey's end.

    Pro-American people... (none / 0) (#67)
    by The Mad Scientist on Wed May 1st, 2002 at 09:24:50 PM PST
    ...should taste something better than McFood and then rethink their stance.

    I don't hate them for being more successful. I hate them for trampling over what I liked. Otherwise I would just ignore them.

    It was the only decent food place along all the routes I commonly use. The rest are either lowclass pubs smelling with beer (nothing against lowclass but I strongly dislike the beer smell), or McD or KFC.


    Sore Losers (none / 0) (#68)
    by MessiahWWKD on Wed May 1st, 2002 at 09:43:07 PM PST
    In other words, you hate McDonald's for being popular with the civilians of the city in which you live? Whatever you do though, do not commit an act of terrorism against McDonald's customers for having different tastes than you.
    Guardian angel, heavenly friend, walk with me 'til the journey's end.

     
    Don't you live in Poland or something? (none / 0) (#71)
    by T Reginald Gibbons on Thu May 2nd, 2002 at 07:27:27 AM PST
    The Polish, being the only people I've ever met who eat raw pork and eels extracted from a horse's carcass, are hardly in a position to lecture America on what is and isn't good food. Americans have the widest choice of cuisines in the largest number of restaurants of any nation in the world. From Tex-Mex to Cajun to California cuisine, our nation has provided more cause for gluttony than anyone else in the last fifty years. There are few nationalities in the world who would not find familiar foods served in the United States. Contrary to your baseless nationalist slur, we do not get all our sustenance from the golden arches.

    That said, McDonald's serves a fine hamburger, and with unequalled efficiency too. For the person who is busier with more important things, there's no shame in spending five minutes or so on a Big Mac rather than wasting half an hour in a more elegant restaurant, waiting for a burger that will cost three times as much while being at best only marginally better, and frequently much worse.


     
    Fries (none / 0) (#66)
    by First Incision on Wed May 1st, 2002 at 08:31:38 PM PST
    As everyone knows in my particular city, the only place to get a decent burger and fries is at one of the many numerous "Middle Eastern/American" restaurants run by a prominent Lebanese family. If you ain't had cheese fries topped with those special Middle Eastern spices, you ain't had cheese fries.
    _
    _
    Do you suffer from late-night hacking? Ask your doctor about Protonix.

     
    Solution: (none / 0) (#70)
    by tkatchev on Thu May 2nd, 2002 at 06:52:26 AM PST
    Move to a country that doesn't suck.


    --
    Peace and much love...




     
    Well. (none / 0) (#84)
    by Songs of Stars on Tue May 7th, 2002 at 03:25:05 AM PST
    Out of curiosity, just how many Americans are white? And how many of those non-whites are, at the moment, in political offices?

    Hmm.
    To be afraid to dream is to be afraid to smile, y'know.

    too fuckin' many. (none / 0) (#87)
    by Anonymous Reader on Tue May 7th, 2002 at 03:14:12 PM PST



     

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